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Fakes & FraudsEbay sellerr's Self Bidders Fraud

7th Apr 2013 10:15 UTCSajjad Shakir

hi Guys we note that some of the peoples are self bidding on there own Minerals to make more money we are the group of few peoples which want clear and clean business with the customers there for we want our market clean please note these Ebay Seller Id and notice by your self they are self bidding on their items ... i buy some thing from him but when i bid higher it got another bid at that time and it make me push further more. and this ennoy us coz the minerals always left to him and also i report it to ebay please my friends dont buy any thing form him.

ebay id : ............

7th Apr 2013 11:44 UTCEvan Johnson

Always be careful making these claims without some sort of substantiation. I think you would do better to take the matter to eBay, as that is a clear violation of their policy. They should be able to confirm is he is shill-bidding or not.

EMJ

7th Apr 2013 16:56 UTCSajjad Shakir

yeap its nice way thanks for the msg.. i did that too.. but i did that too ,,,, but he is just distroying reputation of Pakistan sellers on ebay i dont want that some one destroy reputation of sincere sellers..

7th Apr 2013 18:34 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

You must understand that if the bidder before you puts in a max bid higher than your bid that it will automatically outbid you!!! this is the reason you may be outbid automatically. you will need to raise your bid until you win. SORRY! in autions you must be willing to bid the highest to win

7th Apr 2013 19:13 UTCGary Moldovany

I have made many purchases on Ebay. I believe that I have experienced this situation as well. I was bidding on Geiger Counters a couple of years ago and just couldn't seem to win one from this particular site. Bidding started low but there were several other identical items at a "buy it now" price that was similar to the price the item I was bidding on actually sold for. It appeared as if the seller was bidding up his own item, although I don't have any proof that this actually happened. I eventually gave up and purchased one from another seller.

7th Apr 2013 19:16 UTCSajjad Shakir

thanks guys for you nice comments..

7th Apr 2013 20:13 UTCDon Saathoff Expert

do I understand the ebay procedure correctly? In auction if a minium bid of $1.00 is stated, my initial bid is $10.00, a previous bidder has bid $100.00, the current stated bid becomes AUTOMATICALLY $11.00 and will increase in $1.00 increments as long as the previous $100.00 bid is not reached? That would create a situation like what Mineral Miner has experienced. I haven't bought anything on ebay in many years so am not sure of procedures.

Don

7th Apr 2013 20:32 UTCRonald J. Pellar Expert

Two very common ways of bidding on eBay can be confusing to newcomers.

1) A bidder places a maximum bid and eBay automatically increments the bidder's "bid" until the maximum is reached. This will look like a bidder is sitting at the keyboard and overbidding you almost instantaneously.

2) "Snipe" bidding, is when a bidder waits to last 3 - 30 seconds before the bid closes to place a maximum bid. This limits the time that another bidder can respond. There are internet services that will place the "Snipe" bid for you, e.g., "eSnipe".

Be very careful about accusations of "shill" bidding. The only way to be sure a seller is "shill" bidding is for eBay to check the identities of the submitters of all bids to see if the seller has registered under another "handle", i.e., alias. A seller who has a friend doing the "shill" bidding is harder to catch, but eBay can try by examination of the history between the suspected "shill" bidder and the seller. But even this can be difficult since many sellers have very loyal bidders that are legitimate and not "shills".

Most countries have "liable" and "slander" laws, so be very careful when making accusations that cannot be substantiated.

Ron

7th Apr 2013 22:38 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

The seller can also list the item and have it keep bidders names private. this makes it hard for shills to be confirmed. I personally knew a seller that sold items (not minerals) and they had schills. Ebay banned them for a month I think.

8th Apr 2013 01:24 UTCLeor Goldberg

Why doesn't ebay just eliminate the ability to bid on your own item? It seems like such an easy thing to do..

8th Apr 2013 01:54 UTCOwen Lewis

Because you get you mother to bid on it, using her maiden name ::-D Then there's the hotmail account in the dog's name....

This type of activity is unlawful in some countries and good sites do try to prevent it but I fear that complete prevention is impossible. Similar has always happened in real-world auctions too. Every now and again a bunch of dealers working together - sometimes with the auctioneer - are caught and do some jail time. But there are always more to take their place. Antiques and art auctions have track record. When I used to deal in antique silver in a small way, I was buying at auction in competition with dealers to re-sell to dealers, which is a tough market. It's commonplace for a good piece bought at public auction from a private seller to be sold on up to four times within the trade before going again into the hands of some private collection.

IMO, last 10' sec sniping with your maximum bid is the best surety against such abuse in an internet auction. However, it can't ensure than you win! Also, some e-auction sites prevent sniping, there being an automatic 10 min response time added to the auction end time each time a late bid is placed. This is a gift to the shills and, yes, there are some out there.

8th Apr 2013 02:43 UTCMickey Marks

Don't ever bid on faceted gemstones on E-Bay. Most, if not all are fraudulent.

8th Apr 2013 15:17 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

Mickey, are you saying that of the hundreds of gemstone sellers on ebay, hundreds are fraudulent? I find that to be an incredible claim, requiring incredible proof. I've purchased a few cuts stones on ebay, and every one turned out to be legitimate. Perhaps for each sale I managed to find the 1% of legitimate sellers among the 99% fraudulent sellers? Statistically improbable....

18th Apr 2013 16:35 UTCJames Jones

I am not sure how you could know someone is shill bidding. Just as someone above mentioned, the seller could have a friend do the bidding to drive up the price. I cannot see how Ebay could decide if a seller is engaging in shill bidding, unless they had some kind of software program that could monitor and evaluate bidding on seller's items and give them a statistical probability based on certain patterns that shill bidding was happening. I just don't think eBay is going to go to that length, nor do I think they are really that concerned overall about this issue. All eBay wants is their money. And, too, they know that shill bidding is just almost impossible to prove by almost any and every buyer.

28th Apr 2013 06:20 UTCMatt Neuzil Expert

you could also mark payment sent perhaps like you have arranged with the seller to send a money order... who is going to know any different?

James, you said it well I think. "All eBay wants is their money. And, too, they know that shill bidding is just almost impossible to prove by almost any and every buyer."

I have my persons i buy from on ebay on regular basis. I have seen other sellers on ebay that i watch items because they're above my budget but for giggles I watch. I believe them to be reputable as they have a number of frequent buyers.

Its all buyer beware and sometimes you need to just establish that yourself. you might get hurt once but fool me once shame on you...

17th May 2013 03:45 UTCLeor Goldberg

C:-(aveat emptor.

2nd Jun 2013 10:54 UTCSimon Baxter

Yes some ppl do bid up there own auction items sadly.. I accidentally forgot a decimal point (and added an extra digit) or something when placing a last second bid on a garnet thumbnail on matrix item probably worth, in my mind $20.00 max. So subsequently my bid was placed for $12,670.00!! Imagine my surprise when I found out the next lowest bid was $12,000.00 even. So I was the winner with a final winning bid of $12,100.00!! So.... then I went into the bid results and noticed the $12,000.00 bid was placed by a newbie bidder with no feedback. Now this may have just been my bad luck, but I believe the seller was bidding up his own items with multiple Ebay accounts. Checking on their other auctions I noticed lots of other bids by a newbie with no feedback bidding, but never actually winning any items. If you suspect someone of using another account to bid up their auctions then all you can do is report them to Ebay. If they have done nothing wrong then they have nothing to worry about, if they have and Ebay can prove it then their account will be suspended.

I think bidding items up is a mongrel act and if a seller is worried about their prize specimen going for a few bucks then they either need to put a reserve on it or offer at a buy it now/make an offer price.

Oh and on that $12,100.00 Garnet thumbnail? I retracted my bid after the end of auction (thank goodness) and the seller offered me a second chance offer for item in question at $13.56 (which I accepted).

2nd Jun 2013 10:58 UTCSimon Baxter

All I can say is check a sellers feedback. If there is feedback given that states the item was different than stated or was fake etc then steer clear.

2nd Jun 2013 10:59 UTCSimon Baxter

They use a second account separate from their account they use to list the item.

2nd Jun 2013 11:01 UTCSimon Baxter

Surely they could track the IP address the bid was made from?? Seems simple to a layman like myself.

2nd Jun 2013 15:27 UTCSpencer Ivan Mather

There is another case of fraud on E-bay last month, "Rainbow Garnet", these andradites from Japan were on sale on E-bay, I bought two, and three of my friends bought some, that was 8 weeks ago, but they still havn't appeared, and no amount of emailing them will give us any answers, so beware..

Spencer.

2nd Jun 2013 16:27 UTCStephanie Martin

Hi Spencer,

I have dealt with 2 sellers in Japan many times, both impeccable with 100% rating. No problems. Where was your seller located?

I would have asked for a refund under the ebay buyer protection policy through ebay and filed a complaint, but you only have 45 days to do so, therefore if you didn't do it before then it is too late now.

regards,

stephanie :-)

2nd Jun 2013 16:37 UTCJohn M Stolz Expert

I don't see what the fuss is about. If you see something you want to bid on, bid on it. You set the maximum amount you're willing to pay. If you get it, then congratulations. If you don't, and regret it, then you didn't specify what you were willing to pay. You can play the game of watching the auction and holding off specifying a bid until the last minute, and sometimes that works. It can also reveal that there are other bidders doing the same thing who are willing to pay much more than you.

I think this discussion is promulgated from the frustration of trying to get something for less than its fair value. While we all like situations like that, it's hardly reasonable to get upset when it doesn't work out that ay

1st Jul 2013 21:31 UTCSajjad Shakir

great

Best Regards

2nd Jul 2013 03:17 UTCKeith Wood

I think the NSA, with all their phone records and internet data could surely put a stop to this. /sarc!

2nd Jul 2013 08:39 UTCAndrew Tuma Expert

Interesting comments from Spencer Ivan Mather,

May I remind you Spencer that I am still awaiting the promised responsing swap to the garnets I sent you a number of months back - well over a year. Yes even a response to the emails and private posts after I sent the gsarnets would have been appreciated asked when the swap mineral had been sent.

And so when I read a post as above my blood boils a little....

And as those who know me well know, I am a very forgiving person but....I did warn you if nothing happened I would one day may a very public comment...well that day has occured.

All I ask is that you fulfil you committment, remember it was you who approached me chasing Australian garnets...not me chasing you..

Andrew Tuma

2nd Jul 2013 23:49 UTCIbrahim Jameel Expert

Minerals Miner,

You know what else destroys the reputations of Pakistani mineral dealers? Posting treated (heated/ irradiated, etc.) specimens and trying to pass them off as natural.

Is your Ebay screen name "Minerals-Miner" also? Because I just did a Google search for "minerals miner ebay" and a seller page came up that is currently selling some irradiated "hiddenite" but which very clearly says "Treatment: Natural."

Now, this may be an honest mistake on your part, but overall it seems to be a very habitual "mistake" on the part of almost all the Pakistani Ebay dealers. In addition to worrying about shell bidding, full disclosure of treatments is another practice that I wish you all would have an equal concern for.....

Ibrahim Jameel

8th Aug 2013 19:07 UTCChem1824

I have dealt with Mineral-Miner on ebay in the past and have been very pleased with his products. I have gotten some great specimens at very good prices. He did have an irradiated specimen in which; I pointed out to him in some questions about the specimen and he did change the auction to represent that. Also, I did receive a broken specimen and he sent out some better replacements! I do think that most ebay sellers from Pakistan do represent treated specimens as "natural", and untreated as "100% natural". This should change so the unsuspected buyer is informed.

Always turn down the 2nd chance offer, let them pay their own fees.

I have seen this from US sellers also.

I always turn down the offers.

9th Aug 2013 16:54 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

John's comment is right on. Make your first bid your **only** bid. Set a reasonable price, and if you don't get it then you don't get it. If the seller is using shills and this costs them the sale, it's the seller's loss.

Resist the 'auction frenzy' of constantly increasing bids, and enjoy your collection instead. There are enough ebay dealers from the afore-mentioned portion of the world that if you don't get the specimen you want the first time around, it will come up again eventually.

15th Aug 2013 12:38 UTCAmanda Hawkins

Simon, eBay t have no idea, they have brain washed 'agents' who are useless

24th Jul 2015 22:32 UTCSimon Baxter

I bid on a Chinese garnet thumbnail specimen on ebay worth no more than about $12.50 in my mind... I accidentally, somehow, by trying to snipe the bid at the end entered something like $12500.00 in error. Imagine my horror when the listing ended and I was shown my winning bid of 12 and a half K. Something not right there. No one in their right mind would have had a next top bid of $12,499.00 on that rock! I did report to ebay but they are still trading under that user name. I msg'd the seller and got it sorted though and paid the $12.50 as I originally planned to.

25th Jul 2015 02:38 UTCScott Rider

I know that a few sellers (names I cannot remember) items that I lost in auctions were then relisted shortly after losing them. There are many Chinese and Pakistani sellers doing this as I would lose an item, and would see the VERY EXACT item relisted a few days, or a week later, with the same description and images. I would then "test" these sellers by bidding again on the same very item for a second time, and then lose once again (kept a low bid on really good items so I know I'd lose the auction). Then, they would relist for a 3rd time. I then reported them to eBay and gave them the evidence -- ie. they would see that I would lose an item TWO times, and then the item was relisted.

Some are not even crafty because they would simply just relist the item without any changes... This happened to me bidding on quite a few Pakistani and Chinese items, sellers that are no longer selling because I reported their activities (probably more than just me...). Pretty much the only way to really know a person is "shilling" is when they constantly relist items that supposedly sold. However, I have seen some sellers change the description and create new images, but they were still the same exact item.

Anyway, eBay has its share of honest, really, really good dealers (of which I save as favorites), and its many, many frauds as well... Buyer beware I guess...

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