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GeneralCollecting by Helicopter

17th Aug 2012 15:23 UTCUwe Ludwig

Just now we have a discussion at the German web-site „Mineralienatlas“.

Anybody has the opinion that some Northamericians have their own helicopter and use that for going into the mountains collecting minerals. Another said these people who are so rich to have an own helicopter don’t collect by them selves but they buy these specimens which they wont.

Now I would like to know what the US-Americans and the Canadians have to say to this point.

Uwe Ludwig

17th Aug 2012 16:05 UTCJolyon Ralph Founder

I think the Germans should worry about their own collecting rather than what Americans do or do not do :)

17th Aug 2012 16:36 UTCDan R. Lynch

I've heard a few stories of collectors in Washington state and Arizona using a helicopter to get quickly up mountains, but I've never done that myself, of course. I have, however, taken a helicopter ride to photograph rock formations around my hometown. Very fun.

17th Aug 2012 17:21 UTCTim Jokela Jr

Funny, I heard that's how wealthy Swiss do their strahlering. Step off the chopper and right into the nice pink fluorite pocket. I wish chopper time was cheap enough that I could afford it.

17th Aug 2012 18:22 UTCRaymond Lasmanis

Alaska, Yukon Territory, and Northwest Territories are so remote that the only way around is by helicopter or bush plane. I spent ten years in those regions conducting mieral exploration and when convenient, picked up a few specimens along the way.

17th Aug 2012 18:29 UTCJeff Weissman Expert

Must of us in the US only use our helicopters to commute to and from work ;-)

For an excellent adventure on the subject, read the book by Kevin Krajick, "Barren Lands: An Epic Search for Diamonds in the North American Arctic" for details on how Chuck Fipke used helicopters extensively to look for diamonds throught the Rocky Mountain Region, and also stake claims.

17th Aug 2012 18:33 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Seems it's actually the Brits who go collecting by helicopter in America. ;-)

Ref: Ralph, Jolyon (2011) Air Mindat: Field collecting by helicopter. The Vug Quarterly Magazine, 4, #3, 37-39.

17th Aug 2012 18:34 UTCPeter Seroka

Hi Uwe

it looks, as if you have not understood my contribution in "Mineralienatlas".

(cite: "Just now we have a discussion at the German web-site „Mineralienatlas“.

Anybody has the opinion that some Northamericians have their own helicopter and use that for going into the mountains collecting minerals. Another said these people who are so rich to have an own helicopter don’t collect by them selves but they buy these specimens which they wont. Now I would like to know what the US-Americans and the Canadians have to say to this point. Uwe Ludwig)

My contribution is no discussion and hadn' t been intended to be discussed. I just wanted to express, that " It' s (my) dream to have an own helicopter to fly to a collecting site to collect quartzes and epidotes at the peak of a mountain ".

There has neither been an intention nor a statement, whether there are wealthy American owning their own helicopters just for collecting purposes. Despite the fact, that I came across a few, who were in the position and loved to fly their copters , go fishing and/ or collect at remote sites. In CA, WA and MA. None of those has neither been a rich man nor has he had the bucks to buy expensive minerals.

Peter

17th Aug 2012 18:38 UTCDan R. Lynch

Ha, well, this thread gets a little more interesting...

17th Aug 2012 18:45 UTCEugene & Sharon Cisneros Expert

In the past, I have flown numerous fixed wing craft recons to locate possible collecting sites and to access the ground accessibility of locations. One clandestine mission was to find a commerial collector’s secret location by spotting his truck from the air. We eventually contemplated the purchase of a STOL aircraft that would allow us to land on a particular ridge in San Benito County, very near several important collecting sites. A chopper would have been a perfect solution, but the cost of purchase and maintenance for such craft would be prohibitive. IMO, there are very few mineral finds that could justify the costs of such a venture.

Gene

17th Aug 2012 21:11 UTCUwe Ludwig

With this thread I am far away to blame the collecting behaviour of anybody but I am very interested how the “colleagues” worldwide do our common hobby.

So for example I read the reports at www.greatbasinminerals.com (a very interesting site) with a great pleasure and therefore I was curious to read whether any American hobby collector really use such expensive equipment.

Jolyon yes, I’m worry about German collectors because compared with other countries we are in a very poor situation. All old shafts are sealed or watched by historical mining clubs, the old mining dumps become recultivated and the collectors are pursued by foresters, farmers, quarry owners etc.

Uwe Ludwig

17th Aug 2012 21:48 UTCRock Currier Expert

Uwe,

I use my helicopters all the time to go collecting. If I go any distance I use one of the big ones because it is more comfortable and they have hot tubs and saunas. For places like the moon and mars, I use my space ship.

17th Aug 2012 22:00 UTCGord Howe

Traded mine in for a jet pack ;)

17th Aug 2012 22:32 UTCBart Cannon

This is the truth.

I have my own helicopter pilot who refuses to accept payment from me. He just likes taking trips with me. HE thinks it's a treat !

I am pretty good at alpine ecology as well as mineralogy and geology and he thinks he's got his own two legged nature encyclopedia..

And yes. This guy is super wealthy and a guy who wakes up trying to figure what to do each day. Most often it is spending time with his young grandchildren.

He is not actually on call, and he picks and chooses which flights he'll take me on.

I use him sparingly so that I don't wear out my welcome.

I'd like to describe his helicopter hangar, but that would be too personal for him.

Bart

17th Aug 2012 22:48 UTCJenna Mast

Uwe:

Unfortunately most of us North Americans don't have the resources to go on helicopter collecting trips....I imagine the ones who do this are either well off, doing it as part of a prospecting investment, or are just people who've saved up for a while and prefer to rent a helicopter and go collecting, than to go to Tahiti or something like that.

You can hire a helicopter to pick you up and drop you off at certain locations. I think this runs close to $900 for round trip service depending on the flight time, and it's usually a group of people so they split the cost.

Another option, as Bart said, is to have a friend with a helicopter :-)

On another note, we have an observatory up in the mountains here with a 60" telescope and 100" telescope. You can rent the 60" for half a night or a full night...complete with operator. I think they allow groups as big as 25 people. It's $900 for a half night and $1700 for a full night, so $36 to $68 per person.

17th Aug 2012 23:05 UTCBart Cannon

There is a helicopter service which is based in Darrington, Washington. It was recently operated by super-pro Anthony Reese. And yet even he has crashed a couple of times. Now his son is running the service. The hourly rates are near $1,000, and you must pay for the time it takes the chopper to get from Darrington to your pick up or take back.

More or less too expensive to consider any longer, but as I mentioned, my helicopter pilot only takes me to places he is interested in, and if I have a place to visit outside of my pilot's range and interest, the only option is the super expensive commercial custom trip.

It is now seldom that the cost of the helicopter flight can match the value of the rocks I can take home.

Bart

18th Aug 2012 04:18 UTCDean Allum Expert

Except for desert and grassland collecting, helicopters do not make sense. In Colorado, the majority of interesting sites do not have landing pads, or the winds are problematic. Perhaps these rich collectors rappel from their choppers.

18th Aug 2012 05:43 UTCdan fabich

I walk 4000 miles each year to find some of america's finest minerals. Montana is my favorite.

18th Aug 2012 06:32 UTCBart Cannon

Dean,

Mountain helicopter pilots can always find a place to land. Sometimes it's not exactly where you want to be set down, but the chore of hauling in your drill, drill steel and other tools and supplies via chopper is a lot more fun than packing it in 10 miles with 4,500 feet of elevation gain.

If I had a flat desert location I'd just drive there cross country, or take a mule or a llama. More likely my 120 pound German Shepherd. He can hop a good sized log with a 30 pound pack on his back if his paw pads are in good shape.

There is no greater thrill than seeing the awesome mountain sides pass underneath you without breaking a sweat.

Believe me, I've put in my time in the slide alder, Devil's Club, and talus in the Cascades, Sawtooths, and BC Coast Range. And I'm not too fond of the Red Shank and Manzanita in California, but I've never helicoptered down there.

I could be nearing the end of my extreme collecting career so this post could just be idle chatter. In the old days a field collector could sell almost everything from a find. These days, the only thing you can sell is the specimen which is worthy of being named. Not worth the effort financially, but the appeal of the treasure hunt is still there.

Bart

18th Aug 2012 08:47 UTCJohn Lindell Expert

Into our claim. the first pic shows the back of Bart's head. Much better than the hike with equipment.

18th Aug 2012 14:01 UTCUwe Ludwig

Now we can be proud to be members of a forum together with such a rich gentleman. I guess it is Bill Gates with the pseudonym Rock Currier.:-D

However, without any joke your answers are interesting to read. Renting a heli in the US is cheaper than in Europe. I think it makes sense if some friends together rent a heli for transportation of men and equipment into the mountains above the timber line and call the heli later to come back into the civilization.

In Europe that makes no sense because you can reach every site from a mountain station by foot. A helicopter is only necessary if you had a rich find to bring the crystals back to the valley. I heard that such a renting costs 12,000.- up to 15,000.- EURO.

Uwe Ludwig

18th Aug 2012 20:00 UTCBart Cannon

John's photos remind me of some other aspects to helicopter collecting in the Cascade Mountains.

Everything centers around the weather for the trip in AND the trip out. There is little hope of knowing the weather conditions for the trip out, but no helicopter pilot will pick you in foggy or rainy weather. You must become obsessed with weather reports.

It is very hard to synchronize a trip with yourself, your buddy and the pilot.

I think the trip John's photos came from are the time that our pick time in the morning was the same as my bed time.

This presents the final point. Sometimes the helicopter pilot has a job on the way to another job and he need merely drop down and pick you up without charging with shuttle time from his hangar to your pick up. I think John and I got our trip up Vesper Peak for $150. There we were. A bit after sunrise, and not a drop of sweat on us. Unlike the typical hike in where one loses about two quarts of sweat.

I tried to take a nap, but it quickly became too hot with too many mosquitoes. So I drank a "JOLT" cola and just started collecting under the influence of a massive caffiene infusion.

The true experts on this subject would be Bob Jackson or Joe George.

Bart

19th Aug 2012 12:16 UTCJenna Mast

And another thing about helicoptering into the wilderness.....you might have to stay a few days.

My sister's husband used to snowboard and he and his friends had a helicopter drop them off in the Alaskan wilderness. I don't remember if there was a miscommunication or a snow storm, but things didn't go as planned. They ended up rescuing another group from an Avalanche and walking in waste deep snow for 3 days.

19th Aug 2012 12:24 UTCJenna Mast

Bart:

The interior of the county in which I used to live consisted of largely uninhabited, very rugged terrain. Some guy used to take people in there on camels.

There are some abandoned gold mines up there too. Years ago, a few guys started working one of them. I don't know if they ever found anything but they decided to announce their claim in a news paper article with a promise to shoot anyone who got near it. I thought it was pretty funny considering most people would have had no idea what was up there otherwise, and most people would not have gone through the trouble to get there even if those guys did find a few bits of gold.

19th Aug 2012 14:10 UTCFrank de Wit Manager

LOL, that's what ICT-people call "Security By Obscurity" or "Security Through Obscurity (STO)" ;)

20th Aug 2012 02:54 UTCBob Jackson Expert

Bart,

Tony Reese still flies, as recently as last week delivering gear for the Spruce LLC. Tony is one of the two best pilots I've ever had the pleasure of flying with. The other is Bob Wright, of Federal Way, now retired from the air but happy to pilot collectors to interesting locations by boat. A good mountain pilot can put one skid on a precipice for passengers to hop out.

As to heli-access being the realm of the super rich, the cost of a flight is less than the price of the computer I'm typing on, and a helluva lot more fun.

Bob

20th Aug 2012 06:04 UTCBart Cannon

Jenna,

I wondered about those camels. Early western settlers sometimes used them instead of horses, burros, mules and oxen. Perhaps the ones you are mentioning are descendants of those early camels. Certainly the best for desert work, but where do you find a camel rental and a trailer to transport them ?

I get frightened on top of a horse. I can't imagine my fear level on top of a camel.

I'd like to have a little burro. The fall off of one would not be a long drop, and they don't get up much speed. Every time I get on a horse they know I am not in control, and they take me under a low limbs, and then scrape me off at the barn door. Horses are kind of mean and a lot smarter than they are given credit for.

There is an old MTV video by the band Trio and Error in which a big guy rides into a dusty town on the back of a burro. I think the burro should be riding on the back of the big guy.

Burros are very cute. They won't spit on you like a llama, kick you in the head like a horse, or just plain quit like a mule.

I have a book entitled simply "The Burro". by Frank Brookshier. I think a burro would keep my lawn mowed, and maybe, if I could get him to lie down, I might be able to fit him in the back of my Jeepster.

They are not as sure footed on snow as a llama. I don't have the perfect solution yet. My dog can haul 30 pounds in his saddlebags, climb anything I can climb, and he definitely can fit in my Jeep.

Bart

21st Aug 2012 02:00 UTCStephen Pegler

Every spring and fall, a jewelry store in Fountain Hills, Arizona sponsors a Helicopter Trip to the Four Peaks Amethyst Mine. The good news is that it is a great ride to near the summit of Four Peaks, it is a VERY easy way to collect, you get to go underground to dig up your own amethyst crystals, you get to keep everything you find (within reason), and they give you a small faceted amethyst as part of the deal. The bad news is that it costs about $400.00 per person and you only get to stay an hour or two.

Check out:

http://www.samifinejewelry.com/arizona-four-peaks-amethyst-mine-tour

http://www.amethystminetour.com/

It's a great trip and I have done it twice and I may even do it again. Most of the people that go are Scottsdale YUPPIES that are clueless about mineral collecting and they don't dig up much. However, they let hard core mineral collectors like me dig into the amethyst veins as much as they want. Note that most of the amethyst crystals are subhedral because they are all jammed together but you can find a few deep purple points. The Four Peaks Mine is known for facet grade amethyst, not nice crystal groups.

Steve

21st Aug 2012 02:50 UTCRowan Lytle

All right I have to say this: If rich German rock collectors had helicopters, would the use them? I would think so....

21st Aug 2012 03:09 UTCAlfredo Petrov Manager

Not completely related to Uwe's original question, but I've noticed that a few European collectors, reinforced by occasional comments in European magazines, seem to have gotten the impression that the average American collector is very rich and happily pays far more for rocks than a European would, and that prices for minerals in Tucson are much higher than in Europe. Of course many European dealers can be seen shopping for rocks at the Tucson show and they come back every year, and it is a mystery to me how they can buy at the "inflated" American prices and then resell back home at the far more "reasonable" European prices. Perhaps they are philanthropists who sell at below cost because they just feel sorry for their poor fellow collectors back home? :)-D

21st Aug 2012 09:44 UTCUwe Ludwig

No Rowan, that is the difference between the "Old World" and the "New World".

The few Europeans, especially these who are Germans and who are rich enough to have an own helicopter will use this for reaching the next airport or to go to their business sites and their enterprise will have an own pilot . These 1% of these rich peobles who are interested in Minerals are probably the customers of the dealers which Alfredo mentioned.

To go abroad by the own helicopter makes no sence. Nobody will use a helicopter to go from Europa to North America, Africa or Asia. Europa is very small and has a close net of streets compared with the US I guess. The interesting mineral locations in Europa can be reached simply by car and by realtively easy hiking. The hotspots in the higher mountain areas need an alpinistic equipment and experience - who of the rich have that?

Reading the lot of repords here of this forum I think in the large deserted counties a helicopter makes really sence.

Uwe Ludwig

23rd Aug 2012 22:35 UTCRaymond Lasmanis

Can't help myself reading posts by my friends- so here are quartz crystals collected by helicopter from the Pat Claims, south bank, East Rackla River, 1 mile SE of Kathleen Lakes, Yukon Territory N.T.S. 106-D-1 on July 28, 1979

27th Aug 2012 05:01 UTCBob Jackson Expert

Don't mean to dis your crystals, Ray, but if you're going all that way, try Raerock.

Bob

17th Sep 2012 23:11 UTCGeorg Graf

By the way: Helicopters are used to detect hidden ore deposits by TEM. E. g. it was used in the Harz Mountains in 2008. See: http://www.scandinavian-highlands.com/projects/harz-sedex-project.aspx

Greetings

Georg

18th Sep 2012 05:36 UTCDavid K. Joyce Expert

You can't get a view like this any other way but by helicopter!

Cheers,

David K Joyce

18th Sep 2012 05:54 UTCJenna Mast

Bart:

A man and his camel....and his zebra at the Sespe Hotsprings in Ventura County.

http://camelphotos.com/BeautifulPhotosP1.html

18th Sep 2012 09:15 UTCLuca Baralis Expert

'copters ?

mmm, they are noisy, expensive, hard to park in mountain sites...

No, no so much better teleportation! ;-)

18th Sep 2012 13:28 UTCKeith Wood

When international travel became such a hassle I had to give up big game hunting. So now I just fly around in a helicopter and shoot minerals. Much more challenging in some ways.

;-)

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