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Anonymous User October 24, 2011 04:36PM

I defy anyone to produce an assay from a credible assayer that shows gold in the state of Connecticut.

Charles B Chapman
Geologist, BSc 1965
David Bernstein October 24, 2011 07:43PM
Your alpha designations aside, exactly why are you throwing down the gauntlet and in such an adversarial tone? Curious first post. Inasmuch as this is state property with rules prohibiting collecting in place, I'm certain that your challenge will go wanting. But as I understand it, the presence of gold here was not historical gossip.

David S. Bernstein, Esq. (1988)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2011 07:44PM by David Bernstein.
Adam Berluti October 24, 2011 08:10PM
Its also been found in Leadmine Brook in thomaston CT I've seen pictures in Rock and Minerals showing people panning. I have also read in Stories in Stone (by Jelle Zeilinga de Boer) I will look for more articiles when i find them.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 12:22PM by Adam Berluti.
Rowan Lytle October 24, 2011 10:06PM
The Cobalt gold is actually a vein of quartz with arsenopyrite, a sulfide mineral. sulfides often contain gold and this is one such deposit.
-Rowan Lytle
Anonymous User October 25, 2011 02:19AM

Repetitious recitation of apocrypha does not produce scripture.

Show me the assays.

Charles Chapman
Keith Wood October 25, 2011 04:08AM
So, what will qualify as satisfying your demand? Credible assayers, with whom I deal constantly in my line of work, can accurately and repeatably assay gold in the fractions of a part per billion. Is there some threshold you need to see to admit your defiance was misplaced? In my line of work 25 ppb is considered a significant anomaly at the grassroots level to warrant additional attention in many cases. Would that suffice? Your challenge specifies nothing, so technically, evidence of ANY gold at all in any sample of natural material from a credible assayer would suffice to overturn your contention that there is no gold in CT.

Come on...Don't make us guess...What do you want?
Sam Cordero, Jr. October 25, 2011 06:44AM
Heck, I even heard of a diamond being found. Glacial deposit, probably from Canada which has diamonds. Not sure on this one though.
David Bernstein October 25, 2011 09:55AM
We had a thread on civility. I think this moment is the perfect teachable moment showing that sometimes we must stray from good intentions.

Lighten up, Charles. And who are you that you MUST be shown anything? Write an article and make a splash if you must but don't make demands. It doesn't go over very well.

An article concerning gold in Connecticut for those interested.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/25/2011 12:45PM by David Bernstein.
Harold Moritz (2) October 25, 2011 12:54PM
I'm sorry I can't physically produce an assay on this web forum, but here are the references that describe the occurrence, which have long been posted on the locality's mindat page:

- Chomiak, B. A. (1989): An integrated study of the structure and mineralization at Great Hill, Cobalt, Connecticut : University of Connecticut, Storrs, Connecticut, 288 p.
- Gray, Norman H. (2005): The Historic New-Gate and Cobalt Mines of Connecticut. Field Trip A1 in Guidebook for Field Trips in Connecticut, New England Inter Collegiate Geological Conference, p. 9-18.

Granted, the first reference is difficult to obtain, but Comiak's adviser was Norm Gray who summarizes her work in the second reference, the critical text has also been up on the locality's mindat page:
"Native gold, generally as micron sized grains, is found, along with pyrite and chalcopyrite, in a network of thin fractures and veins cutting the arsenopyrite. Although much of the gold is very fine grained and is difficult to see, even with a strong hand lens, grains up to a mm are present and are quite noticeable on bright sunny days." Gray (2005).

Here's the text from the Hartford Courant's report on the find by Frahm, Robert A. (1986): Hills of Cobalt Hide a Real Gold Mine, Geologist Says. The Hartford Courant, vol. CXLIX no.66 (March 7, 1986).

Gold samples discovered last spring by University of Connecticut geology students on a mapping expedition in the Cobalt section of East Hampton are far richer than the ore in most U.S. gold mines, a UConn geologist said Thursday.
Mining companies already have expressed interest in the findings which are to be presented at a meeting of the Geological Society America Thursday in Kiamesha Lake, N.Y.
“This is very rich gold ores,” said geology professor Anthony R. Philpotts, who led the expedition in the Meshomasic State Forest last May.
“We’re interested in it purely from an academic point of view, but it has economic possibilities,” he said.
He said samples tested by the U. Geological Survey had concentrations of gold ranging from 1½ to 6 ounces per ton of ore. Six ounces per ton is about 100 times the concentration typically found in North American gold mines, Philpotts said.
“That’s a fantastically rich strike if it has any size to it,” said Richard Stumbo, vice president of the Homstake Mining Co., based in San Francisco.
Stumbo, who said he had not heard of the UConn discovery, said mining companies would have to answer variety of questions before determining whether operations would be profitable State regulations, environmental issues, and the volume of ore would have to be ascertained, for example, he said.
“If there is only 100 tons of it, its not really economic,” he said.
“Yeah, that’s exciting,” said Robert Altamura, a geologist with the State Department of Environment Protection. “How extensive the deposit is, is the next logical question.”
Most of the land on which the veins are located is state owned, but Altamura said he was not certain about the mineral rights.
“It was deeded by a fellow who kept the mineral rights - that’s the story as I’ve heard it.” he said.
The gold was found in veins on long-abandoned cobalt and nickel mines in the Cobalt section of East Hampton.
“If those veins extend over any great length, and there are more veins than we see on the surface,” Philpotts said, “you could see the possibility maybe a mining operation could be started there.” Mining ore of such a concentration “would be extremely profitable to a commercial mine,” Philpotts said.
After the discovery in May, a handful of mineralogists and amateur rockhounds came to see for themselves, but the initial interest faded.
“It was big news then. We were quite elated over the discovery said Alan H. Bergren, East Hampton’s chief administrative officer.
“I think we’re proud to know our land is worth more than we ever thought of,” he said. “But don’t think it’s going to change the lifestyle of any of our residents.
Philpotts said individual gold seekers should know that taking ore samples from state-owned property is against the law and would be a waste of time because extracting gold from the rock would require sophisticated machinery.
He said several mining companies had expressed interest in the findings, but he would not name them.
The U.S. Geological Survey tests of the UConn samples are reported in a scientific paper written by Philpotts, Randolph P. Steinen, an assistant geology professor, and Beverly Chomiak, a graduate student.
Chomiak is mapping the geology of the area, and another graduate student is using sophisticated metal detection devices to trace the veins through areas where they are not exposed on the surface, Philpotts said.
The veins are visible for only about a half-mile before disappearing.
Without further examination, “there is no way of ascertaining what the rock types are beneath there,” he said.
He said he was not surprised the results of the tests because flecks of gold were visible to naked eye in some samples found during a return visit last summer.
The veins – sprinkled with specks of gold the size of dust or sand - are 1-foot-wide to 3-foot-wide strips of quartz.

Norm Gray holds field trips there regularly. My wife has attended and seen the visible gold - no assay necessary. But I'm not the expert, why don't YOU (Mr. Chapman) talk to him - Campus Information (860) 486-2000. In fact, some of the geologists mentioned in the article by Frahm will be at the Geological Society of Connecticut meeting on November 4 at the Peabody Museum in New Haven, Randy Steinen is the treasurer. Here's a link to the their web site with details on the meeting, anyone can attend, and you can speak to them personally about it:
David Bernstein October 25, 2011 01:23PM
I see Bob Altamura , former state geologist is quoted Fritz. I have had contact with him concerning his rediscovery and report on the Norwalk Silver Mine. I'll have to drop him a note concerning this.

Excellent reporting, as usual. I'd hit the like button if I could.
Fred E. Davis October 25, 2011 10:06PM
Charles Chapman Wrote:
> I defy anyone to produce an assay from a credible
> assayer that shows gold in the state of
> Connecticut.

I'm in Connecticut, there is a ring on my finger that is also in Connecticut, and it has the karat value stamped on it. Thus, as stated in your challenge, I have demonstrated the occurrence of assayed gold in the state of Connecticut.
Anonymous User October 26, 2011 12:37AM

I am gratified by the response to my challenge. I am glad there are people who care, but disheartened that the responses simply repeat the same myths.

Keith Wood’s response is a start in the right direction. Thanks to Harold Moritz for his efforts; the contact list is useful.

The Mindat page we are talking about quotes Gray as saying 6 Oz per ton, which is preposterous…do the math. 25 ppb amounts to Reductio ad absurdum. Let us use 0.05 oz/ton.

As to a credible assayer, I’ll accept e.g. ACTLABS (Canada), an industry leader in exploration assaying. Furthermore, the identification of gold and its quantification must be done by methods other than optical or the opinion of the author.

Certificates of assay by a credible assayer.

Charles Chapman
Harold Moritz (2) October 26, 2011 01:42AM
Peer reviewed theses and scientific papers by credentialed, professional geologists at a major university are not myths. You've provided no information on why it is a "myth". The authors are not interested in mining and have academic reputations to maintain, why would they create such a "myth"?

"the identification of gold...must be done by methods other than optical or the opinion of the author". Really? Says who? There are many, many minerals listed on mindat that were identified by visual assessment by all sorts of folks, which if you look at what that means on mindat, it means it includes all the usual mineral ID techniques like hardness, luster, streak, SG, etc. I think the people who wrote the papers are qualified to identify gold. If they arent, then everything on this site is worthless.I dont know of any mineral that has to have an assay at some arbitrary concentration to be included on a locality on mindat. It's irrelevant. This is a database site, not a mining feasibility study. In any case, assays are not the point. The point is the gold exists as distinct, visible grains, as documented in these papers, so it's included on the locality page. There's nothing special about gold as far as mindat is concerned, it's just another mineral occurring at this locality.

Now you have the references and the researchers involved. So rather than having us run around looking up stuff on your behalf for free, go get some samples and do the work yourself.
David Bernstein October 26, 2011 03:06AM
I received a very detailed response from the former Connecticut state geologist together with a partial bibliography. But I'm loath to post it for a variety of reasons not the least of which is we don't know why this challenge was issued. To paraphrase Fritz, don't make people jump through hoops for you. Good luck in your quest for truth.
Sam Cordero, Jr. October 26, 2011 05:32AM
The little leprechaun at the end of the rainbow might not like anyone fiddling with, "me gold". Just kidding. :P
Keith Wood October 26, 2011 12:29PM
I'm with Harold. Do your own work. And lighten up on the skepticism of others' good work.
Mark Gottlieb October 26, 2011 01:26PM
Been following this thread with interest. A lot of effort being expended to satiate what seems to be a simple troll attempt. A lot of respectable folks have opined and the references are out there, what this guy's point?
Anonymous User October 26, 2011 11:34PM

My challenge is simple and I’ll repeat it; I defy anyone to produce an assay from a credible assayer that shows gold in the state of Connecticut. Anyone means anyone. Gold means significant gold. Credible, means an entity in the business of assaying and not some grad student with a chemistry set.

I have been approached over the years by people who wanted to get me involved in their gold mining adventures in CT. My first condition for participation has always been a signed certificate of assay by a credible assayer. This includes one guy who wanted us to go to Cobalt, at night, dressed as Ninjas, with Radio Shack metal detectors, and bags for carrying away loose nuggets. Obviously, he had no assays.

The provenance and chain of custody of the sample(s) is also a valid question. It would be nice if the collection and analyses were done according to Canada’s National Instrument 43-101.

I issue my writ of mandamus: Show me the assays.

Charles Chapman
Keith Wood October 27, 2011 02:20AM
Why do you think anyone here would bother with all that just to satisfy you? After all, the majority of the people here have been here for years making valuable contributions to Mindat, but you just arrived, have contributed essentially nothing to Mindat, and introduced yourself by being confrontational and demanding. The fact that you have been treated with more courtesy than you have given, by yards, is a testimony to the kind of people Mindat has attracted over the years.

If you would like to be a real contributor here may I suggest softening your tone and adding some useful information to the site, rather than simply barging into a forum that was fine without you and throwing grenades around.

And for the record, 25 ppb is NOT reductio ad absurdum, it is a significant anomaly. Even if anyone were to take you up on your challenge - which I hope nobody bothers to do - you don't deserve it - your threshold is too high. I mention this for the other good readers here. 25 ppb would be evidence that a hydrothermal system existed capable of transporting gold, and that it did in fact transport and deposit it. 0.05 oz/ton (equal to 1506 ppb) is a mineable grade, and is far in excess if the concentration necessary to document the occurrence of gold in the state.

Just as an example, at the gold mine where I work, which has produced millions of ounces of gold, and has millions more in reserve, I recently took a sample of an interesting rock that was exposed in an incidental road cut some distance from the mine itself. It assayed 19 ppb. You would think I would not care about such a low value. However, because of the context, and my knowledge of the geology of the area, and of nearby deposits, I was actually rather encouraged by this result. Not that it means I have found a new gold deposit to mine, but because it showed that a system had indeed been present. It increased the exploration potential of that area. With more supporting evidence and a good structural/stratigraphic concept, we may end up drilling that location. So that is what we are developing now, using additional exploration techniques.
David Zimmerman (2) October 27, 2011 02:32AM
I usually would not find myself addressing a topic such as this, but with gold prices hovering around $2K/OZ, I doubt that Charles has any interest in proving a point, but rather enriching his fishing expedition. Charles really needs a lesson in communication skills. I wish the admins would've nipped this post in the bud before Harold expended so much energy.
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