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Improving Mindat.orgOverlooked potential POTD's(?)

11th Jun 2013 20:18 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

Comments posted in various venues on this site indicate that many contributors think they have photos in Mindat galleries that are perhaps more significant mineralogically or pleasing esthetically than photos that have already been selected as POTD’s (Photos of the Day). These are photos that have a little something extra.

There does not seem to be a place to highlight such photos that we all have (don't we?). For me, it is a challenge to find my own photos that meet both the expected photographic standards as well as mineralogical importance, but I attached one below. I also provided a description in the same format used for Mindat POTD’s. I shouldn’t have to add anything, and I won’t because such photos should be able to speak for themselves if they really have a sufficient level of quality. Likewise, Mindat mangers do not provide explanations for their choice for POTD. If you have any that you would like to highlight in the same way, why not post it also? Perhaps the managers will look through this thread occasionally for some ideas. My concept is that no response is needed or expected from them. This is provided simply as a free, no-obligation service to any Mindat managers who are interested in what individual contributors think shows their best finds and work.

Locality: Uchucchacua mine, Oyon Province, Lima Department, Peru

Posted by: Norman King

Acanthite on quartz with gypsum. Most acanthite is pseudomorphic after argentite and shows isometric symmetry, but the monoclinic symmetry here indicates these precipitated directly from solution at less than 173 degrees C. The two-crystal grouping is 0.7 cm from top to bottom. Collection and photograph (in color!) by Norman King.

11th Jun 2013 21:54 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Nice one Norm!

Most of us would only see a fraction of the new photos uploaded and only rarely vote and so most POTD only make it by luck or maybe votes for favorite sites, minerals, friends etc?

11th Jun 2013 22:23 UTCChris Stefano Expert

This is one I am particularly proud of. It is an SEM-SE image of ancylite-Ce on aegirine from Magnet Cove, Arkansas. It looks like a blooming flower. The SEM shows it with a greater depth of field and contrast level then would ever be possible with traditional microscopy.

11th Jun 2013 22:36 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

Pyrophanite

Big Rock Quarry (3M Quarry; Arch Street Pike Quarry), Granite Mountain area, Little Rock, Pulaski County, Arkansas, USA

Here is one of my favorite underappreciated photos (by Bob Rothenberg):

11th Jun 2013 23:33 UTCSteve Hardinger 🌟 Expert

Modris, that looks like an alien butterfly resting in the grass.

12th Jun 2013 00:50 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

What is it?

12th Jun 2013 01:08 UTCRobert Rothenberg

It is pyrophanite from the 3 M quarry in Arkansas.

12th Jun 2013 03:34 UTCTony Peterson Expert

Having been honored by a few POTDs, what surprises me is not what gets overlooked, but what gets included - I would never have picked some of mine that made it! Like this common, unexceptional, damaged specimen:

http://www.mindat.org/photo-107762.html

Tony

12th Jun 2013 05:09 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

Tony,

Methinks thou doth protest too much. You know that's a great photo.

And as for the specimen - I'll be glad to take the ugly thing off your hands :-D

Modris

12th Jun 2013 13:08 UTCTony Peterson Expert

The fact that I take pains to well capture the merest piece of crap on my shelf, does not make it worthy. As you know, I'd like the editors to note that stereo pairs can also require much forethought and patience, and can reveal much more in a specimen than a flat image can (such as meaningful views through transparent crystals), so a stereo pair needs to break through the opal ceiling and get a PotD.

;-)

12th Jun 2013 18:14 UTCRock Currier Expert

I think that anyone who complains about the photo of the day should suffer the punishment of having to pick out a months worth of pictures of the day and then suffer through all the complaints from others about the pictures of the day.

13th Jun 2013 00:15 UTCTony Peterson Expert

Point taken!

13th Jun 2013 00:37 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

I'm happy with you taking that punishment.

14th Jun 2013 00:37 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

Here 's another one from my gallery. I modified the description so it would be appropriate for a POTD (I deleted reference to a child photo).

Locality: Rio Marina, Elba Island, Livorno Province, Tuscany, Italy

Posted by: Norman King

Pyrite crystal showing apparent five-fold rotational symmetry. This is the result of roughly equal-representation of octahedral and pyritohedral faces. The octahedral faces are bordered by trisoctahedral faces. Central crystal is 10 mm across. Collection and photograph Norman King. Ex: Albin Jahn (1886-1946) via National Museum for Mineralogy and Geology, Dresden.

14th Jun 2013 00:46 UTCModris Baum 🌟 Expert

Tony,

I just saw your "generic" pyromorphite in the new Min Rec "Mineral Collectors in Arizona" special (p. 95). :-D

I like your photo better. Hope you can live with that he he he.

Modris

14th Jun 2013 03:29 UTCTony Peterson Expert

Modris, I'll have to check this Min Rec in our library tomorrow, don't know what you're referring to.

Meanwhile, I will pick up Norman's gauntlet, he seems to want a challenge re overlooked pyrite photos, I'm fond of these:

http://www.mindat.org/photo-508717.html

http://www.mindat.org/photo-231712.html

14th Jun 2013 12:58 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

Tony,

I love the first pyrite photo, with its crossing striations on the cubes! I don’t remember seeing that before. The second one–are you thinking about the dodecahedral forms? I have pyrite in trisoctahedrons modified by dodecahedral faces, but the photo is a composite that I made because I think most people just skip over the child photos, especially Mindat managers looking for POTD’s. Maybe I should redo that one, offering up a plain (but better! ;-)) photo with children.

And, talking about damage, I wonder how many really significant specimens can be in the POTD file if they must be damage-free? There are some basic issues of POTD philosophy there. I think different managers actually do have different philosophies, but one thing this thread might do is open up the "scenery" even a bit more.

14th Jun 2013 19:13 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

For some reason, perhaps the hours spent by photographers getting the photo right, the POTD has sparked considerable interest and competition. Not being a photographer and not particularly competitive, it is all beyond me.

I don't know if any managers scour the site for POTD candidates, I don't. So my recommendations come as I accidently come across POTD suitables in my daily use of the site. If people posting photos to "Gail's Favorites" would upload them to the main galleries, I would recommend a lot more. For me an eye catching photo with a caption "FOV 2.0 mm" has to be extremely eye catching or incredibly rare to merit clicking the POTD candidate button. Even an ugly mineral with an interesting or educational caption will get my click. Not being a photographer, I am not moved by a long paragraph of the apparatus used, but other managers who do photography are. Remember this is a mineralogy site and not a photography site, but we do love great images of interesting mineralogy.

There also seems to be an interest in the head photos for species and localities. Another thread, http://www.mindat.org/mesg-7-296329.html , has been hijacked into a discussion of what people want to see in those photos.

14th Jun 2013 19:36 UTCErik Vercammen Expert

The crystal with the 'crossing striations' is a twin, and a very rare type!

The second is 111+100+110+210 (octahedron+cube+rombendodecahedron+pyritohedron)

14th Jun 2013 20:14 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Yes, when comments like Eric's occur in the captions, my trigger finger is ready.

14th Jun 2013 21:12 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

POTD selection would indeed seem to be an arcane art. Perhaps that's why it generates so much interest. Has anyone ever really figured it out? Or are we just *tilting at windmills?

*Tilting at windmills: "an importune, unfounded and vain effort against confabulated adversaries for a vain goal." The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms (Boston, Massachusetts: Houghton Mifflin Harcourt). ISBN 978-0618249534

14th Jun 2013 22:39 UTCTony Peterson Expert

Hey Rob, need more caption material? OK, then, in order for those two pyrites:

"This piece was sold to me as a covellite specimen, and I was ripped off because the covellite was just a thin coating on chalcopyrite, no visible crystals. I will change my database entry to 'valuable specimen with rare pyrite twinning."

"Cost me as much to ship from Peru as the sale price. Am careful to put it on a well-supported shelf corner so it won't crack the glass."

BTW Eric, what twin law and axis/plane is involved for that pyrite? I will add it to the caption.....;-)

Tony

15th Jun 2013 02:00 UTCRob Woodside 🌟 Manager

Tony, I don't see any covellite coating, let alone Chalco, on the first. I just went to the pyrite page to look for a good iron cross twin and was amazed at the great job Frank Ruehlicke has done. This is a good example for people, including me, who have sponsored a page to follow. There before my eyes was a great Iron cross twin. That is the twinning on your pyrite. Yours is a mosaic of twins and not just two interpenetrating twin xls. Some might argue with calling your piece an Iron cross twin, but it is the same twin law, which is not that rare. (Great examples are rare) On the second the emphasis on freight charges and weight caused me to check the size. It's a great honker. The damage on it and your Pyromorphite, mentioned above would lower the price considerably. However that doesn't seem to deter those who would pay kilobucks for such material.

Like me probably most of the managers come across something nice while using the site and click the POTD candidate button. I must have been to the pyrite page in the last few years because when I started entering it, pyrite came up. Certainly Frank's work wasn't there before. Anyway my point is that managers are checking odd balls, localities and species, probably missing great photos of common minerals.

15th Jun 2013 07:06 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Rob, some good points, especially noting the iron cross twins which are rarely reported, and maybe we should all be sponsoring a page ( if only we had more time). I rarely flick through the new photos loaded today for the same reason, but there always seems to be a big list for POTD so some people must do it.

15th Jun 2013 12:52 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

I also noted that the pyrite page has had some improvements.

I sponsor some mineral pages--big ones (corundum, hematite, malachite, microcline, and topaz), as well as one locality (Thallium Prospect , Little Valley, Tooele Co., Utah, USA). I wasn't aware of sponsors doing things for their sponsored page(s). How does this happen? Do only the sponsors make such additions, and just to their sponsored pages?

Also, let me remind you that common minerals may include very uncommon forms such as most anything in crystals dominated by the trisoctahedron. Based on what I have seen on this site and shows and books, etc., the fluorite trisoctahedrons (mindat.org/photo-342583.html) are probably the rarest thing I have, and my pyrite trisoctahedrons (mindat.org/photo-384033.html) are close behind, but few people seem to have noticed. And then there are the cubo-octahedrons of sphalerite (mindat.org/photo-537806.html) that I just got up on June 2. Unfortunately the fluorite specimen is very drab, and it must have rolled around in a box of rejects for some time before having another chance at being adopted. I know that is true of the sphalerite because it rolled around in my own boxes for nearly 50 years before I realized what I had. To me, it was just something I could afford when I was a kid. I have always wondered if there shouldn't be a way to highlight such specimens. Certainly POTD is not a way we can expect that to happen, especially with things like that fluorite or sphalerite.

15th Jun 2013 14:30 UTCD Mike Reinke

Rob,

It must be that when you take a real interest in something, you can easily become a real snob at it if you are not careful, like me and coffee, and I'm not careful! Photos and coffee are two things you can really fuss over, not that there aren't lots of other things. But i'm like you, I want (and need) the educational quality of the photos too, partly because there is so much to learn.

15th Jun 2013 21:12 UTCErik Vercammen Expert

Rob was quicker than me to explain, and he is right: it is an iron-cross twin, and that is not terribly rare in itself. But your (twinned) crystal 1) has the form of a cube instead of an pyritohedron, and 2) it is a mosaic of micro-domains rotated 90° degrees to each other, as can be seen from the striations, which are perpendicular to each other.

16th Jun 2013 00:43 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Norm, fascinating crystals, you have a good eye for the odd crystal forms! I would like to see a lot more of this in Mindat, I often want to see typical crystal forms and habits but you have wade through a lot of photos to find them, unless they make the Best Minerals.

16th Jun 2013 12:43 UTCErik Vercammen Expert

Ralph,

I've just introduced a photo of 8 different crystal(combination)s from Murgul, Turkey, found in 1988. I hope they will be already on 'my photos".

16th Jun 2013 13:11 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

That's a fine collection Erik!

A correct list of the crystal forms and Miller indices shown on each crystal would probably make Rob put it straight into the POTD!

16th Jun 2013 15:31 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

Ralph,

I do do that all the time, typically getting few viewings. Among others I uploaded, see spessartine (mindat.org/photo-518798.html), three more fluorites (mindat.org/photo-513273.html; mindat.org/photo-513266.html; mindat.org/photo-509390.html), and amazonite var. of microcline (mindat.org/photo-520636).

I have also provided less formal analysis of crystal forms, such as the bismuth cleavages (HAH!--cleavages my @$$!;-)) we discussed earlier (mindat.org/photo-351027 and children) and copper that just seems to keep giving (mindat.org/photo-370644 and children; mindat.org/photo-367872 and children). I can see that none of these would likely ever be picked as POTD.

This thread seems to be morphing to a discussion of how to call people's attention to photos they might be interested in by means other than POTD. That's a near-perfect outcome for the less ambitious motivation I stated at first. I know that I am a nerd's nerd, and not so many people are into the more technical side of this science, but SOME (many?) are!

19th Jun 2013 14:20 UTCErik Vercammen Expert

Norman,

I found a drawing of an identical specimen as your complicated and beautiful pyrite in "Extra-Lapis 11: Pyrit, Das eiserne Überall-mineral" (in German: Pyrite: the iron everywhere-mineral). It was described as a combination of:

111 the octahedron

210 the 'classic' pyritohedron

100 the cube

321 the diploid.

Liked to find a crystal like that!

Greetings from Belgium

22nd Jun 2013 00:01 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

Fluorite

Moepe Mine, Pilanesberg Mountain, Pilanesberg Alkaline Ring Complex, Moses Kotane Local Municipality, Bojanala Platinum District Municipality, North West, South Africa

I am impressed by today’s POTD. It is indeed interesting!

My original concept here was for people to suggest photos they had taken that they think should be POTD’s. I know the response has been lukewarm at best, probably because we have already determined from previous threads that no one knows what mangers are looking for, and they won’t say. There seems to be no clear rhyme nor reason, except that thumbnails and micromounts photographed using stacking software have an edge. My preference would be to have more POTD’s of scientific interest, like today’s. This one is significant, and we all ought to see it. That makes sense!

What I suggest now is that we should also nominate photos taken by others showing something we think everyone should know about. I nominate the fluorite specimen shown below. It is one of only two like it in the Mindat fluorite gallery of more than 15,000 fluorite photos. The other one is mine, but this one is better than mine. It's dendritic fluorite from Moepe mine in South Africa. After more than three years, it's only had 136 viewings; mine has had 18 viewings in a little over three months. Maybe no one knows about them.

22nd Jun 2013 09:50 UTCRalph S Bottrill 🌟 Manager

Why do people select the POTD pictures they do? Good question, but we all have individual preferences and prejudices, some like big showy things, some rarities, some just one species or group, some only from a local area, and we try to be open but if you flick through 1000's of Mindat pix you can get a bit fazed with most ordinary minerals (OMG not another 4" gem beryl!). Then occasionally you seen eg. a normkingite crystal and realize it's the first decent picture you have seen of it and so give it the nod. Ditto with odd forms, associations, detailed descriptions, etc with the proviso that it has to be a quality photo and likely to be attractive to the average viewer ( though we make exceptions) and try to give newcomers a chance. But again most of us only look at a fraction of the photos so apologies for all the great photos we missed. I love the dendritic fluorite and annotated crystal forms but wonder if the average viewer would understand, or expect such things in a POTD.?. I would still like to see a way of tagging such photos because when I am looking at a rare mineral one of the first things I look for is a picture with some good crystal forms to compare, and this can be pretty hard to do without going through the Entire photo list. Maybe we should look at smarter ways to do this, eg tags for well defined crystal forms?

23rd Jun 2013 08:42 UTCDebbie Woolf Manager

I like your choice Norman, herringbone fluorite, from a mine with a rumoured resident leopard & where you could be ravaged by a lion, risk your life as there's no cell signal ;-)

30th Jun 2013 23:39 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

Nice goethite/hematite POTD today, except it could use a better label. Which is which, and are all those crystals inclusions in quartz?

Here is another overlooked pyrite photo from my gallery, along with the information posted with POTD's:

Locality: Leadville, Leadville District, Lake Co., Colorado, USA

Posted by: Norman King

Icosahedron of pyrite, formed by equal representation of pyritohedral (striated) and octahedral faces (not striated). The icosahedron consists of 20 faces--12 pyritohedral and 8 octahedral. Each vertex (point) is surrounded by 5 faces, and two complete sets of 5 faces are visible in this view. Crystal 7 mm. Collection and photograph Norman King.

1st Jul 2013 12:53 UTCRonnie Van Dommelen 🌟 Manager

Those are some cool pyrites! I was excited to learn that the crosshatched pyrite is a twin - very cool. At the risk of hijacking Norm's topic and turning into a pyrite thread, I want to share a pic of a specimen that a friend picked up for me at the last Tuscon show. It isn't as interesting as those other pyrites - but I love the complexity while maintaining sharp edges. I spent an evening working out the forms present (hopefully correctly) and making a drawing (child photo). Someone has probably already done that for these crystals but I have not seen it yet.

Crystal Morphology

Merelani Hills, Lelatema Mountains, Simanjiro District, Manyara Region, Tanzania

Now back to the POTD discussion. I'm not suggesting that the above should be a POTD, but I agree that specimens that are more than just pretty (ex. complex forms, twins, pseudomorphs, rings/corkscrews/right angle bends etc) make great POTDs. A few recent ones that did make POTD that I loved were:

http://www.mindat.org/photo-353573.html (corkscrew millerite)

http://www.mindat.org/photo-338089.html (crazy vanadinite)

http://www.mindat.org/photo-293405.html (lace hematite)

and others that didn't

http://www.mindat.org/photo-359476.html (huge equant copper crystal)

http://www.mindat.org/photo-307106.html (rare quartz twin)

I went through ALL of the quartz pics last Christmas. It was a hard slog but there were a few very rare complex gems in there.

Those types of pics really make my day.

4th Jul 2013 14:34 UTCJoel Dyer

This discussion / picture thread is a very nice idea. I'm going to start following it as well; hopefully one will learn a few tricks along the way! Thanks!

4th Jul 2013 18:24 UTCNorman King 🌟 Expert

Ronnie,

How do you make such nice crystal drawings?

4th Jul 2013 18:44 UTCRonnie Van Dommelen 🌟 Manager

Norman,

I have an old demo version of Shape that runs on Win95. I have an old computer downstairs with the sole purpose of running that program (because I seem to remember I could not run the new version but it's been a few years since I last checked). Anyway I build the model in Shape but because it's a demo I can't get that as an output file. So I do a screen capture and pull that into Corel Draw and trace over it. Finally export as a gif or png file.

I've done it for lots of local calcite crystals because I love the morphology. For examples, see

http://nsminerals.atspace.com/calcite.html

One of these days I'll splurge on the full software, but it's not cheap. I also seem to remember a similar crystal drawing program running on Matlab, but I could be wrong there. Oh, and Shape also does twins etc though I haven't done much with that.

14th Jul 2013 12:56 UTCAdam Berluti

Sceptre Quartz

Ambatomanoina, Ambatomanoina Commune, Anjozorobe District, Analamanga, Madagascar

I was browsing through some pics and saw this photo in the gallery. A great photo of an amazing specimen. I like the reverse scepter at its base...

Norman, nice fluorite. The dendritic form was making it hard for my eyes to focus on it, looked like it was moving!

24th Jul 2013 13:31 UTCRudolf Hasler Expert

The sceptre quartz was a great POTD.

I sometimes regret the fact that aesthetics often do not seem to play the major part in Mindat's POTD's.

Of course it is much easier to critizise than to solve a problem.

The German platform 'Mineralienatlas' uses a system that is not only quite objective but also very motivating and interesting. Members give marks between 1 (bad) and 10 (excellent). When a pic has 3 or more marks whose average is above 8 it becomes a canditate for a POTD.

24th Jul 2013 14:19 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

The mineral world is much bigger and interesting than only an aesthetic point of view and I`m glad that mindat stresses this out!

Aesthetic is great and good - but its not all. In fact I would quit mindat if this would be the case.

Just jumped over a 50 µm grain of brannerite in an ore slice of pyrite-chalkopyrite from the Radhausberg gold complex (under SEM-EDS).

Fascinating for me - and not only me I`m quite sure.

24th Jul 2013 16:21 UTCRudolf Hasler Expert

A compromise should not be too difficult to be found.

One day a POTD for the scientists and the following day one for the fools like me who like to see beautiful pics.

24th Jul 2013 16:57 UTCChristian Auer 🌟 Expert

Sorry if you misunderstood me Rudolf but its no definition of foolishness to like beautiful pics!

Maybe I should be more precise why this brannerite (or the monazite-ce next to it) are fascinating.

Both of them have elements in them that are isotops. Due to this fact scientists are able to date the original age of this specimen (and ore deposit!).

When and how was it created?

So looking into this window out in a waaay broader mineral world is fascinating!

27th Jul 2013 07:28 UTCRudolf Hasler Expert

Christian, you have convinced me. I also think now that it is good that the two platforms are using different systems for the POTD's selection. Otherwise we probably would see the same pictures here and there.

18th Sep 2013 05:49 UTCRudolf Hasler Expert

Epidote, Byssolite

Knappenwand, Knappenwand area, Neukirchen am Großvenediger, Zell am See District, Salzburg, Austria

This one really should be a POTD:

Regards,

Rudolf

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