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Ramdohrite

Big Photo

Animas Mine, Atocha-Quechisla District, Sud Chichas Province, Potosí Department, Bolivia
© Knut Eldjarn

Formula:
(Cd,Mn,Fe)Ag
 
5.5
Pb
 
12
Sb
 
21.5
S
 
48
System:MonoclinicColour:Grey, bluish black
Hardness:2
Name:For mineralogist Paul Ramdohr (1890-1985), University of Heidelberg, Germany.


Type locality ramdohrite has a significant Cd component (Moelo, et al., 1989), and is compositionally close to fizelyite, but it is not known if there is a solid solution (a Cd-rich fizelyite ?), or a immiscibiliy gap.

Classification of Ramdohrite

IMA status:Valid - first described prior to 1959 (pre-IMA) - "Grandfathered"
Strunz 8th edition ID:2/E.23-30
Nickel-Strunz 10th (pending) edition ID:2.JB.40a

2 : SULFIDES and SULFOSALTS (sulfides, selenides, tellurides; arsenides, antimonides, bismuthides; sulfarsenites, sulfantimonites, sulfbismuthites, etc.)
J : Sulfosalts of PbS archetype
B : Galena derivatives, with Pb
Dana 8th edition ID:3.4.15.6

3 : SULFOSALTS
4 : ø = 3
Hey's CIM Ref.:5.7.23

5 : Sulphosalts - Sulpharsenites and Sulphobismuthites (those containing Sn, Ge,or V are in Section 6)
7 : Sulpharsenites etc. of Pb and other metals
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Type Occurrence of Ramdohrite

Type Locality:Chocaya mine, Atocha-Quechisla District, Sud Chichas Province, Potosí Department, Bolivia
Year of Discovery:1930

Physical Properties of Ramdohrite

Lustre:Metallic
Diaphaneity (Transparency):Opaque
Colour:Grey, bluish black
Streak:Black, grey
Hardness (Mohs):2
Tenacity:Brittle
Fracture:Irregular/Uneven
Density (measured):5.43 g/cm3

Crystallography of Ramdohrite

Crystal System:Monoclinic
Cell Parameters:a = 13.09Å, b = 19.24Å, c = 8.73Å
β = 90.3°
Ratio:a:b:c = 0.68 : 1 : 0.454
Unit Cell Volume:V 2,198.63 ų (Calculated from Unit Cell)
Morphology:Long prismatic or thick, lance-shaped, crystals.
Twinning:Lamellar.

Optical Data of Ramdohrite

Type:Anisotropic
Anisotropism:Moderate
Colour in reflected light:White
Pleochroism:Weak
Comments:Very weak.

Chemical Properties of Ramdohrite

Formula:
(Cd,Mn,Fe)Ag
 
5.5
Pb
 
12
Sb
 
21.5
S
 
48
Essential elements:Ag, Pb, S, Sb
All elements listed in formula:Ag, Cd, Fe, Mn, Pb, S, Sb
Common Impurities:Fe,Cd,In

Relationship of Ramdohrite to other Species

Related to:
  • Ramdohrite-Lillianite Group
    • Related Minerals - Nickel-Strunz Grouping):

    - +
    2.JB.05Diaphorite
    Ag
     
    3
    		Pb
     
    2
    		Sb
     
    3
    		S
     
    8
    2.JB.10Cosalite
    Pb
     
    2
    		Bi
     
    2
    		S
     
    5
    2.JB.15Freieslebenite
    AgPbSbS
     
    3
    2.JB.15Marrite
    AgPbAsS
     
    3
    2.JB.20Cannizzarite
    Pb
     
    4
    		Bi
     
    6
    		S
     
    13
    2.JB.20Wittite
    Pb
     
    9
    		Bi
     
    12
    		(S,Se)
     
    27
    2.JB.25aJunoite
    Cu
     
    2
    		Pb
     
    3
    		Bi
     
    8
    		(S,Se)
     
    16
    2.JB.25iNeyite
    Pb
     
    7
    		(Cu,Ag)
     
    2
    		Bi
     
    6
    		S
     
    17
    2.JB.25cNordströmite
    CuPb
     
    3
    		Bi
     
    7
    		(Se
     
    4
    		S
     
    10
    		)
    2.JB.25gNuffieldite
    Pb
     
    2
    		Cu(Pb,Bi)Bi
     
    2
    		S
     
    7
    2.JB.25dProudite
    CuPb
     
    7.5
    		Bi
     
    9.33
    		(S,Se)
     
    22
    2.JB.25hWeibullite
    Pb
     
    5
    		Bi
     
    8
    		Se
     
    7
    		S
     
    11
    2.JB.25bFelbertalite
    Cu
     
    2
    		Pb
     
    6
    		Bi
     
    8
    		S
     
    19
    2.JB.25jRouxelite
    Cu
     
    2
    		HgPb
     
    23
    		Sb
     
    27
    		S
     
    65.5
    2.JB.25fAngelaite
    Cu
     
    2
    		AgPbBiS
     
    4
    2.JB.25iIMA2008-053
    Cu
     
    7
    		Pb
     
    27
    		Bi
     
    25
    		S
     
    68
    2.JB.30aGeocronite
    Pb
     
    14
    		(Sb,As)
     
    6
    		S
     
    23
    2.JB.30aJordanite
    Pb
     
    14
    		(As,Sb)
     
    6
    		S
     
    23
    2.JB.30bKirkiite
    Pb
     
    10
    		Bi
     
    3
    		As
     
    3
    		S
     
    19
    2.JB.30cTsugaruite
    Pb
     
    4
    		As
     
    2
    		S
     
    7
    2.JB.35cPillaite
    Pb
     
    9
    		Sb
     
    10
    		S
     
    23
    		ClO
     
    0.5
    2.JB.35aZinkenite
    Pb
     
    9
    		Sb
     
    22
    		S
     
    42
    2.JB.35bScainiite
    Pb
     
    14
    		Sb
     
    30
    		S
     
    54
    		O
     
    5
    2.JB.35dPellouxite
    (Cu,Ag)Pb
     
    10
    		Sb
     
    12
    		S
     
    27
    		O(Cl,S)
     
    0.6
    2.JB.40bAschamalmite
    Pb
     
    6
    		Bi
     
    2
    		S
     
    9
    2.JB.40aBursaite
    Pb
     
    5
    		Bi
     
    4
    		S
     
    11
    2.JB.40bEskimoite
    Ag
     
    7
    		Pb
     
    10
    		Bi
     
    15
    		S
     
    36
    2.JB.40aFizélyite
    Pb
     
    14
    		Ag
     
    5
    		Sb
     
    21
    		S
     
    48
    		 ?
    2.JB.40aGustavite
    Ag
     
    3
    		Pb
     
    5
    		Bi
     
    11
    		S
     
    24
    2.JB.40aLillianite
    Pb
     
    3
    		Bi
     
    2
    		S
     
    6
    2.JB.40cOurayite
    Ag
     
    3
    		Pb
     
    4
    		Bi
     
    5
    		S
     
    13
    2.JB.40aRoshchinite
    Ag
     
    19
    		Pb
     
    10
    		Sb
     
    51
    		S
     
    96
    2.JB.40dSchirmerite
    AgPb
     
    2
    		Bi
     
    3
    		S
     
    7
    2.JB.40aTreasurite
    Ag
     
    7
    		Pb
     
    6
    		Bi
     
    15
    		S
     
    32
    2.JB.40aUchucchacuaite
    AgMnPb
     
    3
    		Sb
     
    5
    		S
     
    12
    2.JB.40eUstarasite
    Pb(Bi,Sb)
     
    6
    		S
     
    10
    		 (?)
    2.JB.40aVikingite
    Ag
     
    5
    		Pb
     
    8
    		Bi
     
    13
    		S
     
    30
    2.JB.40aXilingolite
    Pb
     
    3
    		Bi
     
    2
    		S
     
    6
    2.JB.40bHeyrovskýite
    Pb
     
    10
    		AgBi
     
    5
    		S
     
    18
    2.JB.40UM1988-05-S:AgBiCuHgPb
    (Hg,Ag,Cu,Pb)
     
    5
    		Pb
     
    5
    		Bi
     
    11
    		S
     
    27
    2.JB.40UM1988-06-S:AgBiCuHgPb
    (Pb,Hg)
     
    12
    		(Cu,Ag)
     
    3
    		(Bi,Sb)
     
    10
    		(S,Te)
     
    27
    2.JB.40aAndorite IV
    Pb
     
    18
    		Ag
     
    15
    		Sb
     
    47
    		S
     
    96
    2.JB.55Gratonite
    Pb
     
    9
    		As
     
    4
    		S
     
    15
    2.JB.60Marrucciite
    Hg
     
    3
    		Pb
     
    16
    		Sb
     
    18
    		S
     
    46
    2.JB.65Vurroite
    Pb
     
    20
    		Sn
     
    2
    		(Bi,As)
     
    22
    		S
     
    54
    		Cl
     
    6
    Related Minerals - Hey's Index Grouping:

    - +
    5.7.1Seligmannite
    PbCuAsS
     
    3
    5.7.2Bournonite
    PbCuSbS
     
    3
    5.7.3Meneghinite
    Pb
     
    13
    		CuSb
     
    7
    		S
     
    24
    5.7.4Gladite
    PbCuBi
     
    5
    		S
     
    9
    5.7.5Lindströmite
    Pb
     
    3
    		Cu
     
    3
    		Bi
     
    7
    		S
     
    15
    5.7.6Krupkaite
    PbCuBi
     
    3
    		S
     
    6
    5.7.7Hammarite
    Pb
     
    2
    		Cu
     
    2
    		Bi
     
    4
    		S
     
    9
    5.7.8Friedrichite
    Pb
     
    5
    		Cu
     
    5
    		Bi
     
    7
    		S
     
    18
    5.7.9Aikinite
    PbCuBiS
     
    3
    5.7.10Nuffieldite
    Pb
     
    2
    		Cu(Pb,Bi)Bi
     
    2
    		S
     
    7
    5.7.11Jaskólskiite
    Pb
     
    2+x
    		Cu
     
    x
    		(Sb,Bi)
     
    2-x
    		S
     
    6
    		 x = 0.2
    5.7.12Tintinaite
    Pb
     
    22
    		Cu
     
    4
    		(Sb,Bi)
     
    30
    		S
     
    69
    5.7.13Kobellite
    Pb
     
    22
    		Cu
     
    4
    		(Bi,Sb)
     
    30
    		S
     
    69
    5.7.14Proudite
    CuPb
     
    7.5
    		Bi
     
    9.33
    		(S,Se)
     
    22
    5.7.15Nordströmite
    CuPb
     
    3
    		Bi
     
    7
    		(Se
     
    4
    		S
     
    10
    		)
    5.7.16Watkinsonite
    Cu
     
    2
    		PbBi
     
    4
    		(Se,S,Te)
     
    8
    5.7.17Pekoite
    PbCuBi
     
    11
    		(S,Se)
     
    18
    5.7.18Petrovicite
    Cu
     
    3
    		HgPbBiSe
     
    5
    5.7.19Eclarite
    (Cu,Fe)Pb
     
    9
    		Bi
     
    12
    		S
     
    28
    5.7.20Marrite
    AgPbAsS
     
    3
    5.7.21Baumhauerite-2a
    Pb
     
    11
    		Ag(As,Sb)
     
    18
    		S
     
    36
    5.7.22Andorite
    PbAgSb
     
    3
    		S
     
    6
    5.7.24Roshchinite
    Ag
     
    19
    		Pb
     
    10
    		Sb
     
    51
    		S
     
    96
    5.7.25Ourayite
    Ag
     
    3
    		Pb
     
    4
    		Bi
     
    5
    		S
     
    13
    5.7.26Eskimoite
    Ag
     
    7
    		Pb
     
    10
    		Bi
     
    15
    		S
     
    36
    5.7.27Fizélyite
    Pb
     
    14
    		Ag
     
    5
    		Sb
     
    21
    		S
     
    48
    		 ?
    5.7.28Owyheeite
    Ag
     
    2
    		Pb
     
    5
    		Sb
     
    6
    		S
     
    15
    5.7.29Freieslebenite
    AgPbSbS
     
    3
    5.7.30Diaphorite
    Ag
     
    3
    		Pb
     
    2
    		Sb
     
    3
    		S
     
    8
    5.7.31Sterryite
    Ag
     
    2
    		Pb
     
    10
    		(Sb,As)
     
    12
    		S
     
    29
    5.7.32Vikingite
    Ag
     
    5
    		Pb
     
    8
    		Bi
     
    13
    		S
     
    30
    5.7.33Zoubekite
    AgPb
     
    4
    		Sb
     
    4
    		S
     
    10
    5.7.34Schirmerite
    AgPb
     
    2
    		Bi
     
    3
    		S
     
    7
    5.7.36Gustavite
    Ag
     
    3
    		Pb
     
    5
    		Bi
     
    11
    		S
     
    24
    5.7.37Kitaibelite
    Ag
     
    10
    		PbBi
     
    30
    		S
     
    51
    5.7.38Treasurite
    Ag
     
    7
    		Pb
     
    6
    		Bi
     
    15
    		S
     
    32
    5.7.39Benjaminite
    (Ag,Cu)
     
    3
    		(Bi,Pb)
     
    7
    		S
     
    12
    5.7.40Lengenbachite
    (Ag,Cu)
     
    2
    		Pb
     
    6
    		As
     
    4
    		S
     
    13
    5.7.41Berryite
    Pb
     
    3
    		(Ag,Cu)
     
    5
    		Bi
     
    7
    		S
     
    16
    5.7.42Neyite
    Pb
     
    7
    		(Cu,Ag)
     
    2
    		Bi
     
    6
    		S
     
    17
    5.7.43Larosite
    (Cu,Ag)
     
    21
    		(Pb,Bi)
     
    2
    		S
     
    13
    5.7.44Cupropavonite
    AgCu
     
    2
    		PbBi
     
    5
    		S
     
    10
    5.7.45Padĕraite
    Cu
     
    5.9
    		Ag
     
    1.3
    		Pb
     
    1.6
    		Bi
     
    11.2
    		S
     
    22
    5.7.46Rayite
    Pb
     
    8
    		(Ag,Tl)
     
    2
    		Sb
     
    8
    		S
     
    21
    5.7.47Rathite
    (Pb,Tl)
     
    3
    		As
     
    5
    		S
     
    10
    5.7.48Hatchite
    AgTlPbAs
     
    2
    		S
     
    5

    Other Names for Ramdohrite

    Other Languages:
    German:Ramdohrit
    Russian:Рамдорит
    Spanish:Ramdohrita
    Varieties:
    Bismuthian Ramdohrite

    Other Information

    Health Warning:No information on health risks for this material has been entered into the database. You should always treat mineral specimens with care.

    References for Ramdohrite

    Reference List:Ahlfeld (1930), Centralblatt für Mineralogie: 365.

    American Mineralogist (1931): 16: 132.

    Palache, Charles, Harry Berman & Clifford Frondel (1944), The System of Mineralogy of James Dwight Dana and Edward Salisbury Dana Yale University 1837-1892, Volume I: Elements, Sulfides, Sulfosalts, Oxides. John Wiley and Sons, Inc., New York. 7th edition, revised and enlarged: 450-451.

    American Mineralogist (1954): 39: 161-171.

    American Mineralogist (1984): 69: 412.

    American Mineralogist (1985): 70: 219-220.

    American Mineralogist (1991): 76: 2020.

    Neues Jahrbuch für Mineralogie, Abhandlungen: 147: 58-79.


    Moelo, Y et al. (1989), Sulfures complexes plombo-argentiferes: mineralogie et cristallochemie de la serie andorite-fizelyite, (Pb,Mn,Fe,Cd,Sn)3-2x(Ag,Cu)2(Sb,Bi,As)2+x(S,Se)6. Documents du BRGM, 167, BRGM ed., Orleans, 107p.

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    Localities for Ramdohrite

    Hide Locality List
    The map shows a selection of localities that have latitude and longitude coordinates recorded. Click on the symbol to view information about a locality. The symbol next to localities in the list can be used to jump to that position on the map.
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    (TL) indicates type locality. ? indicates mineral may be doubtful at this locality. All other localities listed without reference should be considered as uncertain and unproven until references can be found.
    Argentina
     
    • Jujuy
      • Rinconada Department
    		Brodtkorb, "Las Especies Minerales de la Republica Argentina" (2002)
    Amer.Min.(2000) 85, 1066-1075
    Bolivia
     
    • Oruro Department
      • Cercado Province
        • Oruro City
    		Keutsch, F. & Brodtkorb, M. (2007) Metalliferous parageneses of the San Jose mine. Journal of South American Earth Sciences, 26, 485-491.
    • Potosí Department
      • Sud Chichas Province
        • Atocha-Quechisla District
    		Knut Eldjarn collection
    [MinRec 32:461]
    collections of Alfredo Petrov & Jaroslav Hyrsl.
    Federico Ahlfeld y Alejandro Schneider-Scherbina (1964) Los Yacimientos Minerales y de Hidrocarburos de Bolivia. (Ministerio de Minas y Petroleo, La Paz)
    [MinRec 32:480
    China
     
    • Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region
      • Nanning Prefecture
        • Wuming Co.
    		Anthony, J.W. et al.: Handbook of Mineralogy
    • Jiangxi Province
      • Shangrao Prefecture
        • Wannian Co.
    		Dong Zhensheng et al. (1996). In: Tu Guangzhi, Ed.: Low Temperature Geochemistry, Science Press (Beijing), 32-42.
    Finland
     
    • Länsi-Suomen Lääni
      • Kisko
    		No reference listed
    France
     
    • Alsace
      • Bas-Rhin
        • Villé Valley
    		Wittern, Journée (1997): \"Mineralien finden in den Vogesen\", von Loga (Cologne), pp. 36-37.
    • Auvergne
      • Haute-Loire
        • Langeac
          • Marsanges
    		Y. Moëlo, E. Makovicky and S. Karup-Moller : "Sulfures complexes plombo-argentifères : minéralogie et cristallochimie de la série andorite-fizelyite", Documents du BRGM N° 167, 1989.
    • Pays de Loire
      • Vendée
        • Les Herbiers
    		Y. Moëlo, E. Makovicky and S. Karup-Moller : "Sulfures complexes plombo-argentifères : minéralogie et cristallochimie de la série andorite-fizelyite", Documents du BRGM N° 167, 1989.
    Japan
     
    • Hokkaido Island
      • Shiribeshi Province
        • Shakotan peninsula
    		AMNH specimen
    Mexico
     
    • Mexico
      • Mun. de Temascaltepec
        • Temascaltepec de González (Temascaltepec)
    		Camprubi, A., Canals, A., Cardellach, E., Prol-Ledesma, R.M., Rivera, R., 2001, The La Guitarra Ag-Au low-sulfidation epithermal deposit, Temascaltepec district, Mexico: vein structure, mineralogy, and sulfide-sulfosalt chemistry. Society of Economic Geologists Special Publication, v. 8, p. 133-158.
    Romania
     
    • Maramures Co.
      • Baia Mare (Nagybánya)
    		Papp, Gábor, Alan J. Criddle, Chris J. Stanley, László Kriston and Géza Nagy (2007): Parajamesonite revisited: background of the discreditation of an enigmatic mineral species. Swiss Journal of Geosciences, 100, 495-502.
    Russia
     
    • Eastern-Siberian Region
      • Saha Republic (Sakha Republic; Yakutia)
        • Indigirka River Basin
          • Ust'-Nera
    		American Mineralogist, Volume 79, pages 763-767, 1994
    Slovakia
     
    • Banská Bystrica Region
      • Western Slovenské Rudohorie Mts
        • Chyžné
    		Bálintová T., Števko M., Ozdín D., 2006: Sulphosalts of lillianite homologous series from Chyžné occurrence (Slovakia). Miner. Polonica-Special Papers, vol. 28. p.19- 21
    • Prešov Region
      • Northern Slanské Mts
    		Duda et. all.,1981:Minerály severnej časti Slanských vrchov. Min.Slovca,Monografia 2,Bratislava, 98 p
    USA
     
    • Washington
      • King Co.
        • North Bend
    		www.cannonmicroprobe.com/Mineral_Specimens.htm
    Mineral and/or Locality
    Google
     
    www.mindat.org Web
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