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Ramdohrite

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Formula:
(Cd,Mn,Fe)Ag
 
5.5
Pb
 
12
Sb
 
21.5
S
 
48
System:MonoclinicColour:Grey, bluish black
Hardness:2
Name:
For mineralogist Paul Ramdohr (1890-1985), University of Heidelberg, Germany.


Type locality ramdohrite has a significant Cd component (Moelo et al., 1989), and is compositionally close to fizelyite, but it is not known if there is a solid solution (a Cd-rich fizelyite ?), or a miscibility gap.

Classification of Ramdohrite

IMA status:Valid - first described prior to 1959 (pre-IMA) - "Grandfathered"
Strunz 8th edition ID:2/E.23-30
Nickel-Strunz 10th (pending) edition ID:2.JB.40a

2 : SULFIDES and SULFOSALTS (sulfides, selenides, tellurides; arsenides, antimonides, bismuthides; sulfarsenites, sulfantimonites, sulfbismuthites, etc.)
J : Sulfosalts of PbS archetype
B : Galena derivatives, with Pb
Dana 8th edition ID:3.4.15.6

3 : SULFOSALTS
4 : ø = 3
Hey's CIM Ref.:5.7.23

5 : Sulphosalts - Sulpharsenites and Sulphobismuthites (those containing Sn, Ge,or V are in Section 6)
7 : Sulpharsenites etc. of Pb and other metals
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Type Occurrence of Ramdohrite

Type Locality:Chocaya mine, Atocha-Quechisla District, Sud Chichas Province, Potosí Department, Bolivia
Year of Discovery:1930

Physical Properties of Ramdohrite

Lustre:Metallic
Diaphaneity (Transparency):Opaque
Colour:Grey, bluish black
Streak:Black, grey
Hardness (Mohs):2
Tenacity:Brittle
Fracture:Irregular/Uneven
Density (measured):5.43 g/cm3

Crystallography of Ramdohrite

Crystal System:Monoclinic
Class (H-M):2/m - Prismatic
Cell Parameters:a = 8.7348(3) Å, b = 13.0543(4) Å, c = 19.3117(6) Å
β = 90.179(2)°
Ratio:a:b:c = 0.669 : 1 : 1.479
Unit Cell Volume:V 2,202.04 ų (Calculated from Unit Cell)
Twinning:Lamellar.
Comment:Space group P21/n. Originally given cell: a = 13.09, b = 19.24, c = 8.73 A, beta = 90.3°.

Optical Data of Ramdohrite

Type:Anisotropic
Anisotropism:Moderate
Colour in reflected light:White
Pleochroism:Weak
Comments:Very weak.

Chemical Properties of Ramdohrite

Formula:
(Cd,Mn,Fe)Ag
 
5.5
Pb
 
12
Sb
 
21.5
S
 
48
Simplified for copy/paste:(Cd,Mn,Fe)Ag5.5Pb12Sb21.5S48
Essential elements:Ag, Cd, Pb, S, Sb
All elements listed in formula:Ag, Cd, Fe, Mn, Pb, S, Sb
Common Impurities:Fe,Cd,In

Relationship of Ramdohrite to other Species

Structurally related to group(s):
Ramdohrite-Lillianite Group
Related Minerals - Nickel-Strunz Grouping):

- +
2.JB.05Diaphorite
Ag
 
3
Pb
 
2
Sb
 
3
S
 
8
2.JB.10Cosalite
Pb
 
2
Bi
 
2
S
 
5
2.JB.15Freieslebenite
AgPbSbS
 
3
2.JB.15Marrite
AgPbAsS
 
3
2.JB.20Cannizzarite
Pb
 
4
Bi
 
6
S
 
13
2.JB.20Wittite
Pb
 
9
Bi
 
12
(S,Se)
 
27
2.JB.25aJunoite
Cu
 
2
Pb
 
3
Bi
 
8
(S,Se)
 
16
2.JB.25iNeyite
Ag
 
2
Cu
 
6
Pb
 
25
Bi
 
26
S
 
68
2.JB.25cNordströmite
CuPb
 
3
Bi
 
7
(Se
 
4
S
 
10
)
2.JB.25gNuffieldite
Cu
 
1.4
Pb
 
2.4
Bi
 
2.4
Sb
 
0.2
S
 
7
2.JB.25dProudite
CuPb
 
7.5
Bi
 
9.33
(S,Se)
 
22
2.JB.25hWeibullite
Pb
 
5
Bi
 
8
Se
 
7
S
 
11
2.JB.25bFelbertalite
Cu
 
2
Pb
 
6
Bi
 
8
S
 
19
2.JB.25jRouxelite
Cu
 
2
HgPb
 
23
Sb
 
27
S
 
65.5
2.JB.25fÁngelaite
Cu
 
2
AgPbBiS
 
4
2.JB.25iCuproneyite
Cu
 
7
Pb
 
27
Bi
 
25
S
 
68
2.JB.30aGeocronite
Pb
 
14
(Sb,As)
 
6
S
 
23
2.JB.30aJordanite
Pb
 
14
(As,Sb)
 
6
S
 
23
2.JB.30bKirkiite
Pb
 
10
Bi
 
3
As
 
3
S
 
19
2.JB.30cTsugaruite
Pb
 
4
As
 
2
S
 
7
2.JB.35cPillaite
Pb
 
9
Sb
 
10
S
 
23
ClO
 
0.5
2.JB.35aZinkenite
Pb
 
9
Sb
 
22
S
 
42
2.JB.35bScainiite
Pb
 
14
Sb
 
30
S
 
54
O
 
5
2.JB.35dPellouxite
(Cu,Ag)Pb
 
10
Sb
 
12
S
 
27
O(Cl,S)
 
0.6
2.JB.35fTubulite
Ag
 
2
Pb
 
22
Sb
 
20
S
 
53
2.JB.35eChovanite
Pb
 
15-2x
Sb
 
14+2x
S
 
36
O
 
x
(x ~ 0.2)
2.JB.40bAschamalmite
Pb
 
6
Bi
 
2
S
 
9
2.JB.40aBursaite
Pb
 
5
Bi
 
4
S
 
11
(?)
2.JB.40bEskimoite
Ag
 
7
Pb
 
10
Bi
 
15
S
 
36
2.JB.40aFizélyite
Ag
 
5
Pb
 
14
Sb
 
21
S
 
48
2.JB.40aGustavite
Ag
 
3
Pb
 
5
Bi
 
11
S
 
24
2.JB.40aLillianite
Pb
 
3-2x
Ag
 
x
Bi
 
2+x
S
 
6
2.JB.40cOurayite
Ag
 
3
Pb
 
4
Bi
 
5
S
 
13
2.JB.40aRoshchinite
Ag
 
19
Pb
 
10
Sb
 
51
S
 
96
2.JB.40dSchirmerite
PbAgBi
 
3
S
 
6
- Pb
 
3
Ag
 
1.5
Bi
 
3.5
S
 
9
2.JB.40aTreasurite
Ag
 
7
Pb
 
6
Bi
 
15
S
 
32
2.JB.40aUchucchacuaite
AgMnPb
 
3
Sb
 
5
S
 
12
2.JB.40eUstarasite
Pb(Bi,Sb)
 
6
S
 
10
(?)
2.JB.40aVikingite
Ag
 
5
Pb
 
8
Bi
 
13
S
 
30
2.JB.40aXilingolite
Pb
 
3
Bi
 
2
S
 
6
2.JB.40bHeyrovskýite
Pb
 
10
AgBi
 
5
S
 
18
2.JB.40UM1988-05-S:AgBiCuHgPb
(Hg,Ag,Cu,Pb)
 
5
Pb
 
5
Bi
 
11
S
 
27
2.JB.40UM1988-06-S:AgBiCuHgPb
(Pb,Hg)
 
12
(Cu,Ag)
 
3
(Bi,Sb)
 
10
(S,Te)
 
27
2.JB.40aAndorite IV
Pb
 
18
Ag
 
15
Sb
 
47
S
 
96
2.JB.55Gratonite
Pb
 
9
As
 
4
S
 
15
2.JB.60Marrucciite
Hg
 
3
Pb
 
16
Sb
 
18
S
 
46
2.JB.65Vurroite
Pb
 
20
Sn
 
2
(Bi,As)
 
22
S
 
54
Cl
 
6
Related Minerals - Hey's Index Grouping:

- +
5.7.1Seligmannite
PbCuAsS
 
3
5.7.2Bournonite
PbCuSbS
 
3
5.7.3Meneghinite
Pb
 
13
CuSb
 
7
S
 
24
5.7.4Gladite
PbCuBi
 
5
S
 
9
5.7.5Lindströmite
Pb
 
3
Cu
 
3
Bi
 
7
S
 
15
5.7.6Krupkaite
PbCuBi
 
3
S
 
6
5.7.7Hammarite
Pb
 
2
Cu
 
2
Bi
 
4
S
 
9
5.7.8Friedrichite
Pb
 
5
Cu
 
5
Bi
 
7
S
 
18
5.7.9Aikinite
PbCuBiS
 
3
5.7.10Nuffieldite
Cu
 
1.4
Pb
 
2.4
Bi
 
2.4
Sb
 
0.2
S
 
7
5.7.11Jaskólskiite
Pb
 
2+x
Cu
 
x
(Sb,Bi)
 
2-x
S
 
6
(x = 0.2)
5.7.12Tintinaite
Pb
 
22
Cu
 
4
(Sb,Bi)
 
30
S
 
69
5.7.13Kobellite
Pb
 
22
Cu
 
4
(Bi,Sb)
 
30
S
 
69
5.7.14Proudite
CuPb
 
7.5
Bi
 
9.33
(S,Se)
 
22
5.7.15Nordströmite
CuPb
 
3
Bi
 
7
(Se
 
4
S
 
10
)
5.7.16Watkinsonite
Cu
 
2
PbBi
 
4
(Se,S,Te)
 
8
5.7.17Pekoite
PbCuBi
 
11
(S,Se)
 
18
5.7.18Petrovicite
Cu
 
3
HgPbBiSe
 
5
5.7.19Eclarite
(Cu,Fe)Pb
 
9
Bi
 
12
S
 
28
5.7.20Marrite
AgPbAsS
 
3
5.7.21Baumhauerite-2a
Pb
 
11
Ag(As,Sb)
 
18
S
 
36
5.7.22Andorite
PbAgSb
 
3
S
 
6
5.7.24Roshchinite
Ag
 
19
Pb
 
10
Sb
 
51
S
 
96
5.7.25Ourayite
Ag
 
3
Pb
 
4
Bi
 
5
S
 
13
5.7.26Eskimoite
Ag
 
7
Pb
 
10
Bi
 
15
S
 
36
5.7.27Fizélyite
Ag
 
5
Pb
 
14
Sb
 
21
S
 
48
5.7.28Owyheeite
Ag
 
3+x
Pb
 
10-2x
Sb
 
11+x
S
 
28
, -0.13 < x > +0.20
5.7.29Freieslebenite
AgPbSbS
 
3
5.7.30Diaphorite
Ag
 
3
Pb
 
2
Sb
 
3
S
 
8
5.7.31Sterryite
Ag
 
2
Pb
 
10
(Sb,As)
 
12
S
 
29
5.7.32Vikingite
Ag
 
5
Pb
 
8
Bi
 
13
S
 
30
5.7.33Zoubekite
AgPb
 
4
Sb
 
4
S
 
10
5.7.34Schirmerite
PbAgBi
 
3
S
 
6
- Pb
 
3
Ag
 
1.5
Bi
 
3.5
S
 
9
5.7.36Gustavite
Ag
 
3
Pb
 
5
Bi
 
11
S
 
24
5.7.37Kitaibelite
Ag
 
10
PbBi
 
30
S
 
51
5.7.38Treasurite
Ag
 
7
Pb
 
6
Bi
 
15
S
 
32
5.7.39Benjaminite
(Ag,Cu)
 
3
(Bi,Pb)
 
7
S
 
12
5.7.40Lengenbachite
Ag
 
4
Cu
 
2
Pb
 
18
As
 
12
S
 
39
·
5.7.41Berryite
Cu
 
3
Ag
 
2
Pb
 
3
Bi
 
7
S
 
16
5.7.42Neyite
Ag
 
2
Cu
 
6
Pb
 
25
Bi
 
26
S
 
68
5.7.43Larosite
(Cu,Ag)
 
21
(Pb,Bi)
 
2
S
 
13
5.7.44Cupropavonite
AgCu
 
2
PbBi
 
5
S
 
10
5.7.45Padĕraite
Cu
 
5.9
Ag
 
1.3
Pb
 
1.6
Bi
 
11.2
S
 
22
5.7.46Rayite
Pb
 
8
(Ag,Tl)
 
2
Sb
 
8
S
 
21
5.7.47Rathite
Pb
 
8
Pb
 
4-x
(Tl
 
2
As
 
2
)
 
x
(Ag
 
2
As
 
2
)As
 
16
S
 
40
5.7.48Hatchite
AgTlPbAs
 
2
S
 
5

Other Names for Ramdohrite

Other Languages:
German:Ramdohrit
Russian:Рамдорит
Simplified Chinese:辉锑银铅矿
Spanish:Ramdohrita
Varieties:
Bismuthian Ramdohrite

Other Information

Health Warning:No information on health risks for this material has been entered into the database. You should always treat mineral specimens with care.

References for Ramdohrite

Reference List:

- +
Ahlfeld (1930), Centralblatt für Mineralogie: 365.

American Mineralogist (1931): 16: 132.

Palache, Charles, Harry Berman & Clifford Frondel (1944), The System of Mineralogy of James Dwight Dana and Edward Salisbury Dana Yale University 1837-1892, Volume I: Elements, Sulfides, Sulfosalts, Oxides. John Wiley and Sons, Inc., New York. 7th edition, revised and enlarged: 450-451.

American Mineralogist (1954): 39: 161-171.

American Mineralogist (1984): 69: 412.

American Mineralogist (1985): 70: 219-220.

Moelo, Y et al. (1989), Sulfures complexes plombo-argentiferes: mineralogie et cristallochemie de la serie andorite-fizelyite, (Pb,Mn,Fe,Cd,Sn)3-2x(Ag,Cu)2(Sb,Bi,As)2+x(S,Se)6. Documents du BRGM, 167, BRGM ed., Orleans, 107p.

American Mineralogist (1991): 76: 2020.

Neues Jahrbuch für Mineralogie, Abhandlungen: 147: 58-79.

Nespolo, M., Ozawa, T., Kawasaki, Y., Sugiyama, K. (2012): Structural relations and pseudosymmetries in the andorite homologous series. Journal of Mineralogical and Petrological Sciences 107, 226-243.

Makovicky, E., Mumme, W.G., Gable, R.W. (2013): The crystal structure of ramdohrite, Pb5.9Fe0.1Mn0.1In0.1Cd0.2Ag2.8Sb10.8S24: a new refinement. American Mineralogist, 98, 773-779.

Internet Links for Ramdohrite

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  • Localities for Ramdohrite

    The map shows a selection of localities that have latitude and longitude coordinates recorded. Click on the symbol to view information about a locality. The symbol next to localities in the list can be used to jump to that position on the map.
    (TL) indicates type locality. ? indicates mineral may be doubtful at this locality. All other localities listed without reference should be considered as uncertain and unproven until references can be found.
    Argentina
     
    • Jujuy
      • Rinconada Department
    Brodtkorb, "Las Especies Minerales de la Republica Argentina" (2002); DE BRODTKORB, Milka K. Precious metaltellurides and other Te-bearing minerals in different paragenesis of Argentina: A review. Rev. Asoc. Geol. Argent. [online]. 2009, vol.64, n.3, pp. 365-372.
    Amer.Min.(2000) 85, 1066-1075
    Bolivia
     
    • Oruro Department
      • Cercado Province
        • Oruro City
    Keutsch, F. & Brodtkorb, M. (2007) Metalliferous parageneses of the San Jose mine. Journal of South American Earth Sciences, 26, 485-491.; Keutsch, F., & Brodtkorb, M. D. (2008). Metalliferous paragenesis of the San José mine, Oruro, Bolivia. Journal of South American Earth Sciences, 25(4), 485-491.
    • Potosí Department
      • Antonio Quijarro Province
        • Agua de Castilla
          • Porco
    Kempff, O., Paar, W.H., Tawackoli, S.: "Minerales de Bolivia", 115pp (La Paz, 2009)
      • Sud Chichas Province
        • Atocha-Quechisla District
    Knut Eldjarn collection
    Mineral. Rec. 32: 461; Makovicky, E., Mumme, W.G., Gable, R.W. (2013): The crystal structure of ramdohrite, Pb5.9Fe0.1Mn0.1In0.1Cd0.2Ag2.8Sb10.8S24: a new refinement. American Mineralogist, 98, 773-779.
    collections of Alfredo Petrov & Jaroslav Hyrsl.
    Federico Ahlfeld y Alejandro Schneider-Scherbina (1964) Los Yacimientos Minerales y de Hidrocarburos de Bolivia. (Ministerio de Minas y Petroleo, La Paz)
    [MinRec 32:480
    Bulgaria
     
    • Kardzhali Oblast (Kurdzhali; Kărdžali; Kurdjali)
      • Momchilgrad Obshtina
    Strashimirov, S., Dobrev, S., Stemenov, S., & Dragiev, H. (2005). Silver-bearing minerals from the ore body “North” in Sedefche epithermal Au-Ag deposit (eastern Rhodopes). Annual of the University of Mining and Geology “St. Ivan Rilski, 48, 143-148.
    China
     
    • Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region
      • Hechi Prefecture
        • Nandan Co.
          • Dachang Sn-polymetallic ore field
    Mineral Deposits 4(1), 74
      • Nanning Prefecture
        • Long'an Co.
    Anthony, J.W. et al.: Handbook of Mineralogy
    • Hunan Province
      • Chenzhou Prefecture
        • Yizhang Co.
          • Yaogangxian W-Sn ore field
    Bosheng Zhou, Guohua Zhang, Shuqing Gong, and Yousheng Zeng (2002): Geophysical & Geochemical Exploration 26(6), 436-438
    • Jiangxi Province
      • Shangrao Prefecture
        • Wannian Co.
    Dong Zhensheng et al. (1996). In: Tu Guangzhi, Ed.: Low Temperature Geochemistry, Science Press (Beijing), 32-42
    • Sichuan Province
      • Garzê Autonomous Prefecture (Ganzi Autonomous Prefecture)
        • Baiyu Co.
    Xiaoming Qu, Qiling Zhang, Zengqian Hou, Yuanping Xu, and Jinzhong Li (2001): Mineral Deposits 20(3), 199-207
        • Garzê Co. (Ganzi Co.)
    Gui He and Xipeng Hu (2009): Acta Geologica Sichuan 30(4), 409-411
    • Yunnan Province
      • Honghe Autonomous Prefecture
        • Mengzi Co.
    Xinpei Jiang (1994): Acta Petrologica et Mineralogica 13(5), 278-284; Xueming Chen, Zong Lin, and Fuchang Xie (1998): Scientia Geologica Sinica 33(1), 115-124
    Finland
     
    • Southwestern Finland Region
      • Salo
        • Kisko
    Geological Survey of Finland Metsämonttu - ZINC Database
    France
     
    • Alsace
      • Bas-Rhin
        • Villé Valley
    Wittern, Journée (1997): "Mineralien finden in den Vogesen", von Loga (Cologne), pp. 36-37.
    • Auvergne
      • Haute-Loire
        • Langeac
          • Marsanges
    Y. Moëlo, E. Makovicky and S. Karup-Moller : "Sulfures complexes plombo-argentifères : minéralogie et cristallochimie de la série andorite-fizelyite", Documents du BRGM N° 167, 1989.
    • Pays de Loire
      • Vendée
        • Les Herbiers
    Y. Moëlo, E. Makovicky and S. Karup-Moller : "Sulfures complexes plombo-argentifères : minéralogie et cristallochimie de la série andorite-fizelyite", Documents du BRGM N° 167, 1989.
    Greece
     
    • Attikí Prefecture (Attica; Attika)
      • Lavrion District (Laurion; Laurium)
        • Lavrion District Mines
    Voudouris, P., Melfos, V, Spry, P.G., Bonsall, T.A., Tarkian, M. & Solomon, Ch. (2008): Carbonate-replacement Pb-Zn-Ag+/-Au mineralization in the Kamariza area, Lavrion, Greece: Mineralogy and thermochemical conditions of formation. Mineralogy & Petrology 94, 85-106. [p. 90, 93]
    India
     
    • Rajasthan (Rajputana)
      • Ajmer Division
        • Bhilwara District
    Holler, W. & Gandhi, S.M. (1995) Silver-bearing sulfosalts from the metamorphosed Rampura Agucha Zn-Pb-(Ag) deposit, Rajasthan, India. Canadian Mineralogist, 33, 1047-1057.
    Japan
     
    • Hokkaido
      • Shiribeshi Province
        • Shakotan peninsula
          • Furubira
    AMNH specimen
    Mexico
     
    • Mexico
      • Mun. de Temascaltepec
        • Temascaltepec de González (Temascaltepec)
    Camprubi, A., Canals, A., Cardellach, E., Prol-Ledesma, R.M., Rivera, R., 2001, The La Guitarra Ag-Au low-sulfidation epithermal deposit, Temascaltepec district, Mexico: vein structure, mineralogy, and sulfide-sulfosalt chemistry. Society of Economic Geologists Special Publication, v. 8, p. 133-158.
    Norway
     
    • Nordland
      • Rana
    Nigel J. Cook, pers com. to Knut Edvard Larsen 25.01.2001
    Romania
     
    • Maramureș Co.
      • Baia Mare (Nagybánya)
        • Chiuzbaia (Kisbánya)
    Papp, Gábor, Alan J. Criddle, Chris J. Stanley, László Kriston and Géza Nagy (2007): Parajamesonite revisited: background of the discreditation of an enigmatic mineral species. Swiss Journal of Geosciences, 100, 495-502.
    Russia
     
    • Eastern-Siberian Region
      • Sakha Republic (Saha Republic; Yakutia)
        • Indigirka River Basin
          • Ust'-Nera
    American Mineralogist, Volume 79, pages 763-767, 1994
        • Verkhoyansk Fold Belt
          • Verkhoyansk Silver Province
    Seltmann, R., Soloviev, S., Shatov, V., Pirajno, F., Naumov, E., & Cherkasov, S. (2010). Metallogeny of Siberia: tectonic, geologic and metallogenic settings of selected significant deposits*. Australian Journal of Earth Sciences, 57(6), 655-706
    Slovakia
     
    • Banská Bystrica Region
      • Revúca Co.
        • Chyžné
    Bálintová T., Števko M., Ozdín D., 2006: Sulphosalts of lillianite homologous series from Chyžné occurrence (Slovakia). Miner. Polonica-Special Papers, vol. 28. p.19- 21
    • Prešov Region
      • Prešov Co.
    Duda et. all.,1981:Minerály severnej časti Slanských vrchov. Min.Slovca,Monografia 2,Bratislava, 98 p
    USA
     
    • California
      • Inyo Co.
        • Bishop District (Tungsten Hills District)
          • West Bishop
    Bateman, Paul C. (1965), Geology and tungsten mineralization of the Bishop district, California: USGS PP 470: 130; Pemberton, H. Earl (1983), Minerals of California; Van Nostrand Reinholt Press: 139, 333.
    • Michigan
      • Menominee Co.
    Quigley, Tom, and Mahin, Bob, 2008, Back Forty Geology and Mineralization: Proceedings of the Institute on Lake Superior Geology, v. 54, Part 2 - Field Trip Guidebook, 66-85.
    • Washington
      • King Co.
        • North Bend
    www.cannonmicroprobe.com/Mineral_Specimens.htm
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