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Carminite

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Formula:
PbFe23+(AsO4)2(OH)2
System:
Orthorhombic
Colour:
Carmine-red, terra ...
Hardness:
Name:
Named for its carmine-red colour.
Dimorph of:
The lead analogue of Sewardite. The orthorhombic dimorph of Mawbyite.

A rare secondary mineral formed as an alteration product of arsenopyrite in the oxidized zones of lead-bearing deposits.
Structurally related to palermoite.

Not to be confused with caminite.

Classification of Carminite

Valid - first described prior to 1959 (pre-IMA) - "Grandfathered"
8.BH.30

8 : PHOSPHATES, ARSENATES, VANADATES
B : Phosphates, etc., with additional anions, without H2O
H : With medium-sized and large cations, (OH,etc.):RO4 = 1:1
41.10.6.1

41 : ANHYDROUS PHOSPHATES, ETC.CONTAINING HYDROXYL OR HALOGEN
10 : (AB)3(XO4)2Zq
20.5.12

20 : Arsenates (also arsenates with phosphate, but without other anions)
5 : Arsenates of Ti and Pb
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First Recorded Occurrence of Carminite

Year of Discovery:
1850
Associated Minerals at First Recorded Locality:

Physical Properties of Carminite

Vitreous, Pearly
Diaphaneity (Transparency):
Translucent
Comment:
Lustre pearly on cleavages.
Colour:
Carmine-red, terra cotta-red, reddish brown; red in transmitted light.
Streak:
Reddish yellow
Hardness (Mohs):
Tenacity:
Brittle
Cleavage:
Distinct/Good
On {110}, distinct.
Density:
5.03 - 5.18 g/cm3 (Measured)    5.405 g/cm3 (Calculated)

Crystallography of Carminite

Crystal System:
Orthorhombic
Class (H-M):
mmm (2/m 2/m 2/m) - Dipyramidal
Space Group:
Cccm
Cell Parameters:
a = 16.591Å, b = 7.58Å, c = 12.285Å
Ratio:
a:b:c = 2.189 : 1 : 1.621
Unit Cell Volume:
V 1,544.96 ų (Calculated from Unit Cell)
Z:
8
Morphology:
Crystals lath-like, flattened on {010}, elongated [001] and exhibiting {010}, {110}, {011} plus other forms. As needle-like crystals; tufted or spherical aggregates; fibrous, drusy, massive.

Optical Data of Carminite

Type:
Biaxial (+)
RI values:
nα = 2.050 - 2.070 nβ = 2.050 - 2.070 nγ = 2.060 - 2.080
Max Birefringence:
δ = 0.010
Image shows birefringence interference colour range (at 30µm thickness) and does not take into account mineral colouration.
Surface Relief:
Very High
Dispersion:
r < v strong
Pleochroism:
Visible
Comments:
X = Light yellowish red
Y = Dark carmine-red
Z = Dark carmine-red

Chemical Properties of Carminite

Formula:
PbFe23+(AsO4)2(OH)2
Essential elements:
All elements listed in formula:

Relationship of Carminite to other Species

8.BH.05ThadeuiteCa(Mg,Fe2+)3(PO4)2(OH,F)2
8.BH.10DurangiteNaAl(AsO4)F
8.BH.10IsokiteCaMg(PO4)F
8.BH.10LacroixiteNaAl(PO4)F
8.BH.10MaxwelliteNaFe3+(AsO4)F
8.BH.10PanasqueiraiteCaMg(PO4)(OH,F)
8.BH.10TilasiteCaMg(AsO4)F
8.BH.15DrugmanitePb(Fe3+,Al)2(PO4)2(OH)2
8.BH.20Bjarebyite(Ba,Sr)(Mn2+,Fe2+,Mg)2Al2(PO4)3(OH)3
8.BH.20CirroliteCa3Al2(PO4)3(OH)3 (?)
8.BH.20KulaniteBa(Fe2+,Mn2+,Mg)2(Al,Fe3+)2(PO4)3(OH)3
8.BH.20PenikisiteBa(Mg,Fe2+,Ca)2Al2(PO4)3(OH)3
8.BH.20PerloffiteBa(Mn2+,Fe2+)2Fe23+(PO4)3(OH)3
8.BH.20JohntomaiteBaFe22+Fe23+(PO4)3(OH)3
8.BH.25Bertossaite(Li,Na)2(Ca,Fe2+,Mn2+)Al4(PO4)4(OH,F)4
8.BH.25Palermoite(Li,Na)2(Sr,Ca)Al4(PO4)4(OH)4
8.BH.30SewarditeCaFe23+(AsO4)2(OH)2
8.BH.35AdeliteCaMg(AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35ArsendescloizitePbZn(AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35AustiniteCaZn(AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35CobaltaustiniteCaCo(AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35ConichalciteCaCu(AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35DuftitePbCu(AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35GabrielsonitePbFe(AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35NickelaustiniteCa(Ni,Zn)(AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35TangeiteCaCu(VO4)(OH)
8.BH.35GottlobiteCaMg(VO4,AsO4)(OH)
8.BH.35HermannroseiteCaCu(PO4)(OH)
8.BH.40ČechitePb(Fe2+,Mn2+)(VO4)(OH)
8.BH.40DescloizitePb(Zn,Cu)(VO4)(OH)
8.BH.40MottramitePbCu(VO4)(OH)
8.BH.40PyrobelonitePbMn2+(VO4)(OH)
8.BH.45BayldonitePbCu3(AsO4)2(OH)2
8.BH.45VésigniéiteBaCu3(VO4)2(OH)2
8.BH.50PaganoiteNiBi(AsO4)O
8.BH.55JagoweriteBaAl2(PO4)2(OH)2
8.BH.60Attakolite(Ca,Sr)Mn(Al,Fe)4(HPO4,PO4)3(SiO4,PO4)(OH)4
8.BH.65LeningraditePbCu3(VO4)2Cl
20.5.1CafarsiteCa5.9Mn1.7Fe3Ti3(AsO3)12 · 4-5H2O
20.5.2SchultenitePb(HAsO4)
20.5.3DuftitePbCu(AsO4)(OH)
20.5.4BayldonitePbCu3(AsO4)2(OH)2
20.5.5PhilipsbornitePbAl3(AsO4)2(OH)5 · H2O
20.5.6ArsendescloizitePbZn(AsO4)(OH)
20.5.7HelmutwinkleritePb(Zn,Cu)2(AsO4)2 · 2H2O
20.5.8ThometzekitePb(Cu,Zn)2(AsO4,SO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)
20.5.9Caryinite(Na,Pb)(Ca,Na)(Ca,Mn2+)(Mn2+,Mg,Fe3+)2(AsO4)3
20.5.10LudlockitePbFe43+As103+O22
20.5.11GabrielsonitePbFe(AsO4)(OH)
20.5.13SegnititePbFe33+(AsO4)2(OH,H2O)6
20.5.14TsumcoritePb(Zn,Fe3+)2(AsO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)
20.5.15JamesitePb2Zn(Fe2+,Zn)2Fe43+(AsO4)4(OH)10
20.5.16MawbyitePb(Fe3+,Zn)2(AsO4)2 · 2(OH,H2O)
20.5.17Arsenbrackenbuschite

Other Names for Carminite

Name in Other Languages:

Other Information

Other Information:
Slowly soluble in HCl with the separation of PbCl2 and totally soluble in HNO3.
Health Risks:
No information on health risks for this material has been entered into the database. You should always treat mineral specimens with care.

References for Carminite

Reference List:
Sandberger (1850) Annalen der Physik, Halle, Leipzig: 80: 391 (as Carminspath).

Dana, J.D. (1854) System of Mineralogy, 4th. Edition, New York: 410.

Sandberger (1858) Annalen der Physik, Halle, Leipzig: 103: 345 (as Carminspath).

Larsen, E.S. and Berman, H. (1934) The Microscopic Determination of the Nonopaque Minerals, Second edition, USGS Bulletin 848: 143.

Foshag (1937) American Mineralogist: 22: 479-484.

Le Mesurier (1939) Journal of the Royal Society of Western Australia: 25: 137.

Palache, C., Berman, H., & Frondel, C. (1951), The System of Mineralogy of James Dwight Dana and Edward Salisbury Dana, Yale University 1837-1892, Volume II. John Wiley and Sons, Inc., New York, 7th edition, revised and enlarged, 1124 pp.: 912.

Rosenzweig, A. and J.J. Finney (1959) The unit cell of carminite. American Mineralogist: 44: 663–665.

Olmi, F. and C. Sabelli (1995) Carminite from three localities of Sardinia (Italy). Crystal structure refinements. Neues Jahrb. Mineral., Monatsh., 553–562.

Kharisun, M.R. Taylor, D.J.M. Bevan, and A. Pring (1996) The crystal structure of carminite: refinement and bond valence calculations. Mineralogical Magazine: 60: 805–811.

Internet Links for Carminite

Specimens:
The following Carminite specimens are currently listed for sale on minfind.com.

Localities for Carminite

map shows a selection of localities that have latitude and longitude coordinates recorded. Click on the symbol to view information about a locality. The symbol next to localities in the list can be used to jump to that position on the map.
Mineral and/or Locality  
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