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Talmessite

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Formula:
Ca2Mg(AsO4)2 · 2H2O
Colour:
White, colorless, translucent pale green (nickelian), brownish pink (cobaltian)
Lustre:
Vitreous
Hardness:
5
Crystal System:
Triclinic
Name:
Named after its discovery locality, the Talmessi Mine, Iran.
Hide all sections | Show all sections

Classification of TalmessiteHide

Approved
8.CG.05

8 : PHOSPHATES, ARSENATES, VANADATES
C : Phosphates without additional anions, with H2O
G : With large and medium-sized cations, RO4:H2O = 1:1
40.2.2.5

40 : HYDRATED NORMAL PHOSPHATES,ARSENATES AND VANADATES
2 : AB2(XO4)2·xH2O
20.2.18

20 : Arsenates (also arsenates with phosphate, but without other anions)
2 : Arsenates of Be, Mg, Ca or Ba

Physical Properties of TalmessiteHide

Vitreous
Transparency:
Transparent
Colour:
White, colorless, translucent pale green (nickelian), brownish pink (cobaltian)
Hardness:

Optical Data of TalmessiteHide

Type:
Biaxial (-)
RI values:
nα = 1.672 nβ = 1.685 nγ = 1.698
2V:
Measured: 90° , Calculated: 88°
Max Birefringence:
δ = 0.026
Image shows birefringence interference colour range (at 30µm thickness)
and does not take into account mineral colouration.
Surface Relief:
High
Dispersion:
r > v strong

Chemical Properties of TalmessiteHide

Formula:
Ca2Mg(AsO4)2 · 2H2O

Crystallography of TalmessiteHide

Crystal System:
Triclinic
Cell Parameters:
a = 5.87 Å, b = 6.94 Å, c = 5.53 Å
α = 97.3°, β = 108.7°, γ = 108.1°
Ratio:
a:b:c = 0.846 : 1 : 0.797
Unit Cell V:
196.29 ų (Calculated from Unit Cell)

X-Ray Powder DiffractionHide

Powder Diffraction Data:
d-spacingIntensity
5.09 (60)
4.62 (40)
3.56 (60)
3.21 (80)
3.07 (100)
2.77 (100)
1.717 (60)

Type Occurrence of TalmessiteHide

Synonyms of TalmessiteHide

Other Language Names for TalmessiteHide

Varieties of TalmessiteHide

Cobaltoan TalmessiteA cobalt-rich variety of talmessite.
Nickeloan Talmessite

Relationship of Talmessite to other SpeciesHide

Other Members of this group:
CassidyiteCa2(Ni2+,Mg)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
CollinsiteCa2(Mg,Fe2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
FairfielditeCa2(Mn2+,Fe2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
GaititeCa2Zn(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
MesseliteCa2(Fe2+,Mn2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
NeomesseliteA structural variety of messelite.Tric.
NickeltalmessiteCa2Ni(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
ParabrandtiteCa2Mn2+(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
Unnamed (Fe2+-analogue of Parabrandtite)Ca2Fe2+(AsO4)2 · 2H2O
β-RoseliteCa2(Co2+,Mg)(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
Forms a series with:

Common AssociatesHide

Associated Minerals Based on Photo Data:
Austinite18 photos of Talmessite associated with Austinite on mindat.org.
Calcite6 photos of Talmessite associated with Calcite on mindat.org.
Erythrite5 photos of Talmessite associated with Erythrite on mindat.org.
Vladimirite4 photos of Talmessite associated with Vladimirite on mindat.org.
Wendwilsonite4 photos of Talmessite associated with Wendwilsonite on mindat.org.
Aragonite3 photos of Talmessite associated with Aragonite on mindat.org.
Adamite3 photos of Talmessite associated with Adamite on mindat.org.
Roselite3 photos of Talmessite associated with Roselite on mindat.org.
Cobaltaustinite2 photos of Talmessite associated with Cobaltaustinite on mindat.org.
Cobaltlotharmeyerite2 photos of Talmessite associated with Cobaltlotharmeyerite on mindat.org.

Related Minerals - Nickel-Strunz GroupingHide

8.CG.05CassidyiteCa2(Ni2+,Mg)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
8.CG.05CollinsiteCa2(Mg,Fe2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
8.CG.05FairfielditeCa2(Mn2+,Fe2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
8.CG.05GaititeCa2Zn(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
8.CG.05MesseliteCa2(Fe2+,Mn2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
8.CG.05ParabrandtiteCa2Mn2+(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
8.CG.05β-RoseliteCa2(Co2+,Mg)(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
8.CG.05HilliteCa2(Zn,Mg)(PO4)2 · 2 H2OTric. 1 : P1
8.CG.10BrandtiteCa2(Mn2+,Mg)(AsO4)2 · 2H2OMon. 2/m : P21/b
8.CG.10RoseliteCa2(Co2+,Mg)(AsO4)2 · 2H2OMon. 2/m : P21/b
8.CG.10WendwilsoniteCa2Mg(AsO4)2 · 2H2OMon. 2/m : P21/b
8.CG.10ZincroseliteCa2Zn(AsO4)2 · 2H2OMon.
8.CG.10RruffiteCa2Cu(AsO4)2 · 2H2OMon. 2/m : P21/b
8.CG.15FerrilotharmeyeriteCa(Fe3+,Zn)2(AsO4)2 · 2(OH,H2O)Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15LotharmeyeriteCa(Zn,Mn3+)2(AsO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15MawbyitePb(Fe3+,Zn)2(AsO4)2 · 2(OH,H2O)Mon.
8.CG.15MounanaitePbFe3+2(VO4)2(OH,F)2Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15ThometzekitePb(Cu,Zn)2(AsO4,SO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15TsumcoritePbZn2(AsO4)2 · 2H2OMon.
8.CG.15CobaltlotharmeyeriteCa(Co,Fe3+,Ni)2(AsO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15CabalzariteCa(Mg,Al,Fe3+)2(AsO4)2(OH,H2O)2Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15KrettnichitePbMn3+2(VO4)2(OH)2Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15CobalttsumcoritePb(Co,Fe3+,Ni)2(AsO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15NickellotharmeyeriteCa(Ni,Fe3+,Co)2(AsO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15ManganlotharmeyeriteCaMn3+2(AsO4)2(OH)2Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15Schneebergite(Bi3+,Ca)(Co,Ni,Fe3+)2(AsO4)2(OH,H2O)2Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.15Nickelschneebergite(Bi3+,Ca)(Ni,Co,Fe3+)2(AsO4)2 · 2(OH,H2O)Mon. 2/m : B2/m
8.CG.20GartrellitePb(Cu,Fe3+,Zn)2(AsO4,SO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Tric. 1 : P1
8.CG.20HelmutwinkleritePb(Zn,Cu)2(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
8.CG.20ZincgartrellitePb(Zn,Fe3+,Cu)2(AsO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Tric. 1 : P1
8.CG.20RappolditePb(Co,Ni,Zn)2(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
8.CG.20PhosphogartrellitePb(Cu,Fe3+)2(PO4,AsO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Tric.
8.CG.20LukrahniteCa(Cu,Zn)(Fe3+,Zn)(AsO4)2 · 2(H2O,OH)Tric. 1 : P1
8.CG.25Pottsite(Pb3xBi4-2x)(VO4)4·H2O (0.8 < x < 1.0)Tet. 4/m : I41/a
8.CG.35NickeltalmessiteCa2Ni(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1

Related Minerals - Dana Grouping (8th Ed.)Hide

40.2.2.1FairfielditeCa2(Mn2+,Fe2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
40.2.2.2MesseliteCa2(Fe2+,Mn2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
40.2.2.3CollinsiteCa2(Mg,Fe2+)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric. 1 : P1
40.2.2.4CassidyiteCa2(Ni2+,Mg)(PO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
40.2.2.6GaititeCa2Zn(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
40.2.2.7β-RoseliteCa2(Co2+,Mg)(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.
40.2.2.8ParabrandtiteCa2Mn2+(AsO4)2 · 2H2OTric.

Related Minerals - Hey's Chemical Index of Minerals GroupingHide

20.2.1BearsiteBe2(AsO4)(OH) · 4H2OMon.
20.2.2BrassiteMg(HAsO4) · 4H2OOrth. mmm (2/m 2/m 2/m) : Pbca
20.2.3RößleriteMg(HAsO4) · 7H2OMon. 2/m : B2/b
20.2.4HörnesiteMg3(AsO4)2 · 8H2OMon. 2/m : B2/m
20.2.5WeiliteCa(HAsO4)Tric. 1 : P1
20.2.6JohnbaumiteCa5(AsO4)3OHHex. 6/m : P63/m
20.2.7HaidingeriteCaHAsO4 · H2OOrth. mmm (2/m 2/m 2/m) : Pbcn
20.2.8PharmacoliteCa(HAsO4) · 2H2OMon. m
20.2.9SainfelditeCaCa2Ca2(AsO4)2(HAsO4)2 · 4H2OMon. 2/m : B2/b
20.2.10VladimiriteCa4(AsO4)2(AsO3OH) · 4H2OMon. 2/m : P21/b
20.2.11GuériniteCa5(AsO4)2(HAsO4)2 · 9H2OMon. 2/m : P21/b
20.2.12FerrarisiteCa5(AsO4)2(HAsO4)2 · 9H2OTric. 1 : P1
20.2.13RauenthaliteCa3(AsO4)2 · 10H2OTric. 1 : P1
20.2.14PhaunouxiteCa3(AsO4)2 · 11H2OTric.
20.2.15McneariteNaCa5(AsO4)(HAsO4)4 · 4H2OTric.
20.2.16BergslagiteCaBeAsO4(OH)Mon. 2/m : P21/b
20.2.17AdeliteCaMg(AsO4)(OH)Orth. 2 2 2 : P21 21 21
20.2.19IrhtemiteCa4Mg(AsO4)2(HAsO4)2 · 4H2OMon.
20.2.20CamgasiteCaMg(AsO4)(OH) · 5H2OMon. 2/m : P21/m
20.2.21PicropharmacoliteCa4Mg(AsO4)2(HAsO4)2 · 11H2OTric. 1 : P1
20.2.22BariopharmacosideriteBa0.5Fe3+4(AsO4)3(OH)4 · 5H2OTet. 4 2m : P4 2m

Other InformationHide

Health Risks:
No information on health risks for this material has been entered into the database. You should always treat mineral specimens with care.

References for TalmessiteHide

Reference List:
Sort by Year (asc) | by Year (desc) | by Author (A-Z) | by Author (Z-A)
American Mineralogist (1957): 42: 583.
Bariand, P. & Herpin, P. (1960): Un arséniate de calcium et de magnésium, isomorphe de la β rosélite. Bulletin de la Société française de Minéralogie et de Cristallographie: 83: 118-121.
Pierrot, R. (1964): Contribution à la minéralogie des arséniates calciques et calcomagnésiens naturels. Bull. Soc. fr. Minéral. Cristallogr. 87, 169-211.
American Mineralogist (1965): 50: 813.
Yakhontova, L.K. (1968): Trudy Mineral. Muzeya Akad. Nauk SSSR: 18: 154-167.
Canadian Mineralogist (1976): 14: 198.
Catti, M., Ferraris, G., Ivaldi, G. (1977): Hydrogen bonding in the crystalline state. Structure of talmessite, Ca2(Mg,Co)(AsO4)2•2H2O, and crystal chemistry of related minerals. Bulletin de la Société française de Minéralogie et de Cristallographie, 100, 230-236.
Weiss, S., Lengauer, C.L., Parodi, G.C. (2002): Roselith, Wendwilsonit und kobalthaltiger Talmessit aus Bou Azzer, Marokko. Lapis 27 (1), 37-41; 58. (in German)
Joswig, W., Paulus, E. F., Liebscher, B. (2004): Crystal structure of dicalcium (cobalt,magnesium) diarsenate dihydrate, Ca2(Co0.532Mg0.468)[AsO4]2•2H2O, hydrogen bonding in talmessite. Z. Kristallogr. - New Cryst. Struct. 219, 341-342. [Note: The use of the mineral name talmessite in the paper title is erroneous; the sample in fact corresponds to roselite-beta.]

Internet Links for TalmessiteHide

Localities for TalmessiteHide

This map shows a selection of localities that have latitude and longitude coordinates recorded. Click on the symbol to view information about a locality. The symbol next to localities in the list can be used to jump to that position on the map.

Locality ListHide

- This locality has map coordinates listed. - This locality has estimated coordinates. ⓘ - Click for further information on this occurrence. ? - Indicates mineral may be doubtful at this locality. - Good crystals or important locality for species. - World class for species or very significant. (TL) - Type Locality for a valid mineral species. (FRL) - First Recorded Locality for everything else (eg varieties). Struck out - Mineral was erroneously reported from this locality. Faded * - Never found at this locality but inferred to have existed at some point in the past (eg from pseudomorphs.)

All localities listed without proper references should be considered as questionable.
Austria
 
  • Carinthia
    • Friesach - Hüttenberg area
      • Hüttenberg
        • Lölling
          • Stelzing
            • Klippitztörl road cuts
Meixner, H. & Ruscha, S. (1979): Talmessit, ein für Österreich neues Mineral, aus der Umgebung des Klippitztörls, Saualpe, Kärnten. Karinthin 80, 86-88.; G. Niedermayr, I. Praetzel: Mineralien Kärntens, 1995
Chile
 
  • Arica and Parinacota Region
    • Arica Province
      • Los Camarones
Samples analysed by Tony Kampf of LAC Mineralogical Museum, USA
  • Atacama Region
    • Copiapó Province
      • Tierra Amarilla
        • Pampa Larga district
Yang, H., Jenkins, R.A., Downs, R.T., Evans, S.H., Tait, K.T. (2011): Rruffite, Ca2Cu(AsO4)2·2H2O,a new member of the roselite group, from Tierra Amarilla, Chile. Canadian Mineralogist, 49, 877-884
samples analysed by Gerhard Mohn and Joy Desor
    • Huasco Province
      • Freirina
        • Sierra Perdices
Samples analysed by Dr. Jochen Schluter (Hamburg University), Germany; http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/~mineralogische-sammlungen-dmg/analysen/talmessit.htm
  • Tarapacá Region
    • El Tamarugal Province
      • Salar Grande
samples analysed by Anthony Kampf, Curator Emeritus of Mineral Sciences at NHM of LAC, California; Kampf, A.R., Nash, B.P., Dini, M., Molina Donoso, A.A. (2016): Chongite, Ca3Mg2(AsO4)2(AsO3OH)2·4H2O, a new arsenate member of the hureaulite group from the Torrecillas mine, Iquique Province, Chile. Mineralogical Magazine, 80, (in press).
Czech Republic
 
  • Bohemia (Böhmen; Boehmen)
    • Karlovy Vary Region
      • Krušné Hory Mts (Erzgebirge)
        • Jáchymov District (St Joachimsthal)
Lapis 2002(7/8), 63-65
France
 
  • Grand Est
    • Haut-Rhin
Wittern, Journée: "Mineralien finden in den Vogesen", von Loga (Cologne), 1997
P&T N°23-24, H. BARI 1982, Minéralogie des filons du Neuenberg à Sainte Marie aux Mines (Haut-Rhin).
  • Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
    • Alpes-Maritimes
Feraud, J., Pillard, F. & Vernet, J. (1976): Talmessite, Ca2Mg(AsO4)2.2H2O, in the baritic karst of pre-albian age of Luceram (Maritime Alps, France). Bulletin de la Société française de Minéralogie et de Cristallographie 99, 331-333 (in French).; Cuchet S. (2000), Mystérieuse irhtémite à Lucéram, Alpes-Maritimes, Le Règne Minéral, n°36, pp: 38-42
Germany
 
  • Baden-Württemberg
    • Black Forest
      • Schenkenzell
Walenta, K. (2001): Neue Mineralfunde aus dem Schwarzwald. 8. Folge, 1. Teil. Lapis, 26 (2), 39-42.
  • Hesse
    • Richelsdorf District
      • Bauhaus
Weiss: "Mineralfundstellen, Deutschland West", Weise (Munich), 1990
      • Nentershausen
        • Süß
          • Richelsdorf Smelter
S. Weiß: "Mineralfundstellen, Deutschland West", Weise (Munich), 1992
  • Saxony
    • Erzgebirge
Lapis 30(7/8):78-80 (2005)
Greece
 
  • Attikí Prefecture (Attica; Attika)
    • Lavrion District (Laurion; Laurium)
      • Lavrion District Mines
        • Plaka
          • Plaka Mines
Wendel, W., Blaß, G., Mühlbauer, W. & Markl, G. (1999): Hilarion - Plaka - Sounion: Lavrion-News 1997-1999. Lapis, 24 (7-8), 64-67; Branko Rieck and Karl-Heinz Fabritz information
Hungary
 
  • Baranya Co.
    • Mecsek Mts
Szakáll & Jánosi: minerals of hungary, 1995
Szakáll & Jánosi: Minerals of Hungary, 1995
Iran (TL)
 
  • Esfahan Province (Isfahan Province; Aspadana Province)
    • Nain County (Nayin County)
      • Anarak District
[Bull.Soc.fr.Min.Crist.(1960) 83, 118-121; Clark, 1993 - "Hey's Mineral Index", p684]; Bariand, P., Bachet, B., Brassy, C., Medenbach, O., Deliens, M., Vautier, R., & Piret, P. (1993) A New Uranium Mineral from the Talmessi Mine, Iran, and Rabejac, France. Mineralogical Record: 24: 463-467
Italy
 
  • Liguria
    • Genova Province
      • Ne
        • Graveglia Valley
          • Reppia
Balestra, C., Armellino, G., Kolitsch, U., & Bracco, R. (2006). Talmessite di Gambatesa. MICRO (UK report), 2006, 25-26.
  • Piedmont
    • Cuneo Province
      • Corsaglia Valley
        • Montaldo di Mondovì
          • Borgata Oberti
Kolitsch, U., Ciriotti, M.E., Cadoni, M., Armellino, G., Piccoli, G.C., Ambrino, P., Blass, G., Odicino, G., Ciuffardi, M. (2011): Montaldo di Mondovì Minerali della miniera di manganese e ferro. Micro, 9, 4-21.
Japan
 
  • Kyushu Region
    • Oita prefecture
      • Saiki City
        • Kiura mine (Shin-Kiura mine; Kiura emery mine)
Masayuki OHNISHI, Norimasa SHIMOBAYASHI, Shigetomo KISHI, Mitsuo TANABE, Shoichi KOBAYASHI (2013) Talmessite from the Uriya deposit at the Kiura mining area, Oita Prefecture, Japan. Journal of Mineralogical and Petrological Sciences, 108, No. 2 (April), 116-120.
Morocco
 
  • Drâa-Tafilalet Region
    • Ouarzazate Province
      • Tazenakht
        • Bou Azzer District (Bou Azer District)
          • Aghbar
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
          • Agoudal
Analyses for Jordi Frabre
Favreau, G., Dietrich, J. E., Meisser, N., Brugger, J., Ait Haddouch, L. & Maacha, L. (2007): Bou Azzer, Morocco. Mineralogical Record 38, 345-407
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68. (in German)
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
          • Bou Azer
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2001). Bou Azzer, description des espèces minérales. Le Cahier des Micromonteurs, (73), 34-112. (in French)
N. Meisser, J. Brugger (2006): "Bouazzerit und Maghrebit, zwei neue Arsenatmineralien aus dem Revier Bou Azzer, Marokko", Lapis 31(7/8), 69-71
          • Ightem
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
          • Méchoui
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
          • Oumlil
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
          • Tamdrost
Favreau, G., Dietrich, J. E., Meisser, N., Brugger, J., Ait Haddouch, L. & Maacha, L. (2007): Bou Azzer, Morocco. Mineralogical Record 38, 345-407
Favreau, G. and Dietrich, J. E. (2006). Die Mineralien von Bou Azzer. Lapis 31(7/8), 27-68
Namibia
 
  • Otjikoto Region (Oshikoto)
    • Tsumeb
analysed - EDS & SXRD; Franz Neuhold, Vienna
Switzerland
 
  • Grischun (Grisons; Graubünden)
    • Albula Valley
      • Oberhalbstein (Surses; Sursass)
        • Tinizong (Tinzen)
UK
 
  • England
    • Devon
      • Okehampton area (Northern Dartmoor)
        • Belstone
Braithwaite, R.S.W., et al., Journal of the Russell Society 6(2), 100-101(1996).
USA
 
  • Arizona
    • Mohave Co.
      • Hualapai Indian Reservation
The Canadian Mineralogist; October 2007; v. 45; no. 5; p. 1177-1188
      • Peach Springs Canyon
Anthony, J.W., et al (1995), Mineralogy of Arizona, 3rd.ed.: 253, 389; Wenrich, K.J. & H.B. Sutphin (1988), Recognition of breccia pipes in northern Arizona, AZ Bur. Geol. Min. Tech. Fieldnotes: 18:1-5, 11.
  • Utah
    • Tooele Co.
      • Deep Creek Mts
        • Gold Hill District (Clifton District)
          • Gold Hill
Kokinos, M. and Wise, W.S. (1993), Famous Mineral Localities: the Gold Hill mine, Tooele County, Utah. Mineralogical Record: 24(1): 11-22.
Kokinos, M. and Wise, W.S. (1993), Famous Mineral Localities: the Gold Hill mine, Tooele County, Utah. Mineralogical Record: 24(1): 11-22.
Mineral and/or Locality  
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